Eastern File copies

[AceVentura]

The only reason why I researched these is because whenever talk begins, misconceptions abound and folks like to link CK to the sales of these books.

In the current thread on the CGC Forums, someone mentioned buying an Eastern JIM 84 from Mark Wilson (a great seller). A detatched file/remainder cover married to an interior.

Here's where the logic and chain of facts goes awry.

In this thread, someone stated that Fantazia stamped Eastern color on all of these, yet goes on to state that they bought one from Mark Wilson with the Eastern file stamp.

From my understanding, Mark Wilson sold far more attached covers than Fantazia. Mark Wilson also bought these covers, and/or interiors from the same person who Fantazia acquired them from. Wilson didn't get these from Fantazia I was told.

Isn't that a bit MORE of a coincidence that Wilson's Eastern file/remainder copies would ALSO have an Eastern file copy stamp on the cover or interior as well? Were both Fantazia AND Wilson stamping them with the same stamp? Because based on the posts on the CGC forums concerning Wilson's sales of these file copies, that would have to be the ONLY conclusion as to why BOTH seller's books, working 3000 miles apart and from different inventory, would have the same stamps. The only OTHER explanation, the PLAUSIBLE and LOGICAL one, OTHER than BOTH sellers stamping their inventory with the same stamp from 3000 miles away, is that on the Eastern remainder copies, SOME or MANY were already stamped.

A little logic goes a long way sometimes. Forgive me for introducing some. I know that applying Logic is NOT the CGC Forum way of doing things.

[AceVentura]

What also fairly amusing and tremendously hypocritical is that Heritage described the Avengers 11 Eastern book as a Fantazia Pedigree and called it "trimmed".

Let's apply some logic here. If CGC is slabbing the Eastern File married covers in GREEN LABEL SLABS, as they did Wilson's, they are NOT finding them trimmed. According to CGC, ALL the Eastern Marvels are covers alone, married to interiors. Therefore, they must be CUT, trimmed down to fit the interior.

How then could SOME of them be considered "trimmed", like the one Heritage auctioned, and others NOT be considered "trimmed", like the ones that CGC graded?

They're ALL cut down from a larger sheet to fit an interior, right? They have to be trimmed down to fit whatever interior they're being married to. How is that possible that they're not either ALL considered trimmed, or ALL considered NOT trimmed? Selectively disclosed trimming to fit the occassion?

Too bad nobody asks these type of questions over there, right?

[The Charlton Guy]

Now my interest in these file covers is piqued...imagine that...:D

Was Eastern responsible for printing all of the SA Marvel covers?

Or are we talking just some selected/contracted titles?

During what years?

If it was indeed all of the SA contemporary Marvel covers, how many of each did they keep for their file copies? Are we talking one, five, ten, dozens or hundreds? Or did the count vary per title?

Does anybody know how they were stored in order to keep the color and gloss in this "better than pedigree" condition?

Where were they located?

And if as you claim, two different buyers were able to get ahold of some, that presumes that more did. Or was this an exclusive sale to these two buyers?

What brought about the sale? Who "found" the covers and decided they were of value?

How were they sold to these two (or more) buyers and in what quantity?

Are there more of these covers floating around, yet to be "married" to interiors?

A lot of questions, I know, and likely not all to be answered or even known by any one person, but I figure why not give it a shot?

:confused:

[The Charlton Guy]

Here's the description of the FF #18 from Wilson's website:

"Rare issue - First Super Skrull! - Certification #0779684010... The Rarest Fantastic Four issue in NM 9.4... A superb high grade copy from 1963, that features a classic Jack Kirby cover - The All-Powereful Super-Skrull!... The inks and gloss are as fresh and deep as the day it was printed... This is a File copy cover married to the interior, so it does look better than most 9.6 Marvels and the given qualified grade is very strict... According to CGC this stunning book is tied with only one other for the 2nd Highest grade on the Census. "

Here's the scan:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/FantasticFour18CGC94Q.jpg

[UnlimitedRealities]

You would think that if one were to marry a mint cover template to a comic interior, one would center it properly before folding and trimming the cover =P

[The Charlton Guy]

At first I was thinking the same thing, but it must have been an aesthetic call, as the more I look at it, the cover does include some right-hand artwork that typically doesn't show up on this issue.

Here's a scan of a more typical, centered cover. The guy in the brown suit on the right is chopped in half and in the married copy a lot more of the intricate Kirby building detailing is evident.


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/18-1.jpg


If I had a "file cover", and in similar circumstances (marrying a cover), I probably would have done the same thing. I couldn't bring myself to trim off Kirby art just for the sake of centering.

[UnlimitedRealities]

Yeah, you're right, and really, neither looks very well centered, so I would have to go with the more detailed right edge as well.

[The Charlton Guy]

And I must admit, it comes as some surprise to me (though looking back, it really shouldn't) that the covers for these books were printed by a different company than that that printed the interiors. The printing eqipment would be much different, so it makes sense. But the logistics of assembly must have been tricky.

No wonder so many SA books are mis-cut, mis-alligned, over-flashed and otherwise messed up.

[Quato]

At first I was thinking the same thing, but it must have been an aesthetic call, as the more I look at it, the cover does include some right-hand artwork that typically doesn't show up on this issue.

Here's a scan of a more typical, centered cover. The guy in the brown suit on the right is chopped in half and in the married copy a lot more of the intricate Kirby building detailing is evident.


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/18-1.jpg


If I had a "file cover", and in similar circumstances (marrying a cover), I probably would have done the same thing. I couldn't bring myself to trim off Kirby art just for the sake of centering.

I seriously doubt Kirby drew much on those buildings. Kirby pumped out so much material that you didn't really start to see true renditions of Kirby's pencils until the 70's when he did more of the finishing. Marvel also had other artists do backgrounds sometimes. Obviously you lose either way on that book above. I'd rather have the left side folded properly rather than keep details they expected to be cropped anyway.

Just my opinion.

Q

[Quato]

I don't know much about the details of this topic. I do remember a high grade collector named Mark that had the most perfect copy of Strange Tales #110 you could imagine. He said it was a married or reconstructed book. The name Mark Wilson is definitely familiar to me, but I don't remember if it was someone I met or someone that the other dealers I knew dealt with. Does that make sense? It's been over a decade since I hung around any Golden or high grade Silver age collectors. My personal taste in comics tends to be more esoteric and less mainstream.

Q

[stupidman]

I'm not sure if Mark Wilson at pgcmint.com does a lot of resto anymore, but if you meant his brother Matt Wilson, he has done some of the worst resto I have ever seen, and is very shady. If wish the pictures were still up for this thread, it looked like he used whiteout on the cover:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=1480265&Searchpage=1&Main=81303&Words=matt+wilson+showcase-4&topic=0&Search=true#Post1480265

http://www.fantasymasterpieces.com/