The Detective 27 comic shop purchase

[AceVentura]

This post really struck me in particular:

Paul A wrote: "stop me if you heard this one.hanibal the cannibal walks into one of 5 shops belonging to a 21 year comic dealing veteran .as per newsarama, the value of anything is merely the agreed to price.todd is the pro and the guy selling even admits guarantying that to the best of his knowledge these 3 books spent the last 65 years locked in an attic. was a crime committed? todd did not report a crime! in fact,he only strengthened the case that no crime was done by nationally declaring what a brilliant deal he made.perfect crime.newsarama rules! todd has his own fake news just like fox news. punch line........beware the ides of october ,todd"

In my opinion, Paul A is not just some CGC forum shill having fun. This is written by someone likely INVOLVED in the deal itself. Though parable-like in nature and delivery, I would re-read Paul A's posts more carefully, then decode them to get at the truth, or a good idea of the truth.

[paul a]

T. you’ve played a great game! I give you kudos for your ingenuity, deviousness, tenacity, and greed. My two spies from Shittim (don't even think of "spooning" that, look it up in your Funk and Wagnalls or the Bible, Joshua 2) have invaded Jericho. The seven trumpet blowing priests are at the wall (Joshua 6) and the walls are tumbling down. All the inhabitants will be massacred, I curse your city and destroy it.

Many who say they can see are really blind and I would never save a lamb from the slaughter, but T., I should have charged you more for all the publicity you milked from this. Are you going to milk the publicity out of your shame also? Do you call the news every time you take a dump? How long did it take you to move the All American #16 piece of shit that you stole from a little old lady? God, you are totally shameless. You are the whore of Babylon. I should have doubled the price if I knew what you were going to get out of it. International, all over the internet, Fox News, papers, radio, you got millions of $$$$$$ of free publicity and conned more people than Ewart, Dupcak, Metropolis, CGC, Heritage, Old Guy, Geppi, Newsarama, PGX, etc, etc, etc, put together! Damn you! T. you said “don’t believe everything you read in the news. They have missed a lot of facts!” God almighty, how prophetic! Time to fill them in T. ”This is the best.” How’s your stomach feel now that that you’ve entered the comic book crooked villain hall of shame as both greatest chump and greatest deceiver? How’s about posting a new Comic Logic at your own personal Fox News explaining how, anyone would have done the same thing and how great an investment Batman is! Hey T. you didn’t burn, loose ,bury or have the book stolen from you did you? What a shame! Was it insured? How many “experts” looked at the book and said it was good! Seniors? What, your Mommy and Daddy? How long can you afford to sit on that book without selling it? Cash crunch? Maybe it should get its own pedigree, the TM. Yeah the TM! Let’s coin a new term “THE TM” Now you can be infamous in the hobby after you are laughed out of business and branded the greatest chump and deceiver that comic fandom has ever seen. I guess you felt lucky, punk. You pulled the trigger. You brought this on yourself. You and you alone caused all this God awesome chaos which will cripple comics dealing for years or even decades.

Hey T., I’m declaring my payday to the IRS! Need to keep everything nice and legal. You know how they hate those no contract, under the counter, possible money laundering, strictly cash, unreported exchanges of large sums of money. Almost forgot to report that FF 4 for five grand..

Let this be a lesson to every fan boy around the world and remember George Santayana. Look something up in a BOOK for a change, you morons. The Internet is the devil’s tool. Robert Burns “the best laid SCHEMES O’ MICE AN’ MEN GANG AFT AGLEY.” You were given ample opportunity to be a man T., and you blew it! What will you answer to now?

And for all you idiots who knew, didn’t ask questions and let yourselves be willingly fooled… “the hottest circles in hell are reserved for those who in times of crisis maintained their neutrality,” Dante. You can say anything you want on the forums, right! That’s what I’ve been told! People say enough shit about me. The other shoe is falling, tick tock, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

It’s all over now except for the crying. Your diligence and dedication to self promotion have paid a handsome dividend. Take a bow T. You certainly deserve it. Now that’s entertainment.






http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd300/dannybuddy/d06fdf09.jpg

[AceVentura]

Is it altogether possible that T had knowledge of this book or already owned it before it showed up for sale that week from a "find"?
I still can't figure out WHAT he would have planned to do with increased visibility through public exposure if in fact this is mostly or all staged.
Someone like Geppi, or any seller that has alot MORE prime Gold and Silver age books to sell would better benefit financially by all the publicity than a guy who deals mostly in new sh*t and can't follow up on his new found fame by providing alot more of the same to interested parties attracted by the publicity.

Everything about the whole scenario strikes me as very strange, as in, there's alot more to it than meets the eye.

[The Charlton Guy]

Let this be a lesson to every fan boy around the world and remember George Santayana.



I think I love you...#cloud9#

[AceVentura]

I think I love you...#cloud9#

Now I AM Jealous! :(

According to the CGC Forumites, you're supposed to be MY "arse-buddy"

#woohoo#

[The Charlton Guy]

Sorry, but George Santayana fans take precedence in the "Arse-Buddy" Department.

[The Charlton Guy]

Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In the first stage of life the mind is frivolous and easily distracted, it misses progress by failing in consecutiveness and persistence. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in which instinct has learned nothing from experience. (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/27301.html)


George Santayana: "The Age of Reason", 1905

[AceVentura]

Sorry, but George Santayana fans take precedence in the "Arse-Buddy" Department.

Well isn't THAT a swift kick in the arse! :(

[paul a]

We are down the rabbit hole and in an endless freefall . A correction is coming . Thank you Ace, for the re-direction . Hollywood is calling , DD. I am working up a major dump . I thought arithmetic was still taught in our public school system . Guess I was wrong about that also . 2 +2= low battery . Do not worry the basic story stands-just minor disruptions in time and space . Anything else you would like to contribute , Ace ?

[AceVentura]

We are down the rabbit hole and in an endless freefall . A correction is coming . Thank you Ace, for the re-direction . Hollywood is calling , DD. I am working up a major dump . I thought arithmetic was still taught in our public school system . Guess I was wrong about that also . 2 +2= low battery . Do not worry the basic story stands-just minor disruptions in time and space . Anything else you would like to contribute , Ace ?

SURE! I'm always contributing.

Although, I have no idea what I've contributed in this case! I'm on the end of the spectrum that knows very little about the deal or it's mechanics, and before the story hit the CGC Forums, I wasn't even consciously aware of Todd's existance.

My impressions were based on whatever was brought out on the CGC Forum. I haven't even read any of the media text related to the Det. 27.

BTW, I'm not DD, if you're referring to me as Danny, Daniel, or Danny Boy (as CGC forum member refer to Dupcak). I'm CK, but after 6 years of erroneously being called DD, the mis-identification doesn't faze me anymore other than to occassionally cause me to point out that I'm not DD, for all the good it does.

Maybe you're right to include DD's mug shot though. Maybe DD was the guy that sold the book to Todd. Who knows. I certainly don't have DD under lock and key, do you? If so, God bless you. That'll sure keep the hobby safe from any and all scams.

I'm sure Todd knows what DD looks like by now, even if he didn't before. If he STILL doesn't recognize DD as the guy who sold him the book, it could be that DD shifted his shape!

I'm surprised that nobody else has come up with that possibility, that DD MAY be a shape-shifter! That would certainly explain alot of other ills in the hobby, the 1% of the ills that AREN'T DD's fault out of the 100% that are! It could ALL be DD's doings.

Ewert himself may have really been DD. Has anyone ever SEEN Ewert and DD in the same room at the same time? There's probably a good reason for that if they haven't. Did anyone ever try surprising Ewert from behind, yelling out "Hey DUPCAK!", and seeing if he spun around? I would of given Ewert that "Dupcak test". I've ALWAYS had my suspicions. Nobody even thought of that one.

I'll go you one better though. Here's something that neither you nor Old Guy or anyone else has probably thought of. My theory is that DD is the culprit. Not just the Det 27 caper, but EVERY caper that has ever been visited on the hobby. Anything negative. Every ill, every bad deal, every scam, every phony auction on Ebay, every seller postal overcharge, every comic that ever disappeared in the mail! Everything! DD did it. That should be a bumper sticker.. DD did it!

My theory is that if you can neutralize DD (if one can truly neutralize the Devil himself), either drive a stake through him, entomb him, or trap him in amber, ALL of the above ills and more will come to a grinding halt and the hobby will revert back to the Garden of Eden!

#allhailme#

[stupidman]

SURE! I'm always contributing.

Although, I have no idea what I've contributed in this case! I'm on the end of the spectrum that knows very little about the deal or it's mechanics, and before the story hit the CGC Forums, I wasn't even consciously aware of Todd's existance.

My impressions were based on whatever was brought out on the CGC Forum. I haven't even read any of the media text related to the Det. 27.

BTW, I'm not DD, if you're referring to me as Danny, Daniel, or Danny Boy (as CGC forum member refer to Dupcak). I'm CK, but after 6 years of erroneously being called DD, the mis-identification doesn't faze me anymore other than to occassionally cause me to point out that I'm not DD, for all the good it does.

Maybe you're right to include DD's mug shot though. Maybe DD was the guy that sold the book to Todd. Who knows. I certainly don't have DD under lock and key, do you? If so, God bless you. That'll sure keep the hobby safe from any and all scams.

I'm sure Todd knows what DD looks like by now, even if he didn't before. If he STILL doesn't recognize DD as the guy who sold him the book, it could be that DD shifted his shape!

I'm surprised that nobody else has come up with that possibility, that DD MAY be a shape-shifter! That would certainly explain alot of other ills in the hobby, the 1% of the ills that AREN'T DD's fault out of the 100% that are! It could ALL be DD's doings.

Ewert himself may have really been DD. Has anyone ever SEEN Ewert and DD in the same room at the same time? There's probably a good reason for that if they haven't. Did anyone ever try surprising Ewert from behind, yelling out "Hey DUPCAK!", and seeing if he spun around? I would of given Ewert that "Dupcak test". I've ALWAYS had my suspicions. Nobody even thought of that one.

I'll go you one better though. Here's something that neither you nor Old Guy or anyone else has probably thought of. My theory is that DD is the culprit. Not just the Det 27 caper, but EVERY caper that has ever been visited on the hobby. Anything negative. Every ill, every bad deal, every scam, every phony auction on Ebay, every seller postal overcharge, every comic that ever disappeared in the mail! Everything! DD did it. That should be a bumper sticker.. DD did it!

My theory is that if you can neutralize DD (if one can truly neutralize the Devil himself), either drive a stake through him, entomb him, or trap him in amber, ALL of the above ills and more will come to a grinding halt and the hobby will revert back to the Garden of Eden!

#allhailme#

You truly are a facked-up egomaniac, DD/RK!

http://members.aol.com/catmanstu/comickeys.jpg

[AceVentura]

How sad about your preoccupation! Obviously, your life revolves around DD. Have you gone 1 day in the past 5 years without dwelling on him? You keep that mug shot image handy as though you can't wait to use it for an excuse to look at it. How many times a day do you look at it? Do you even NEED to look at it anymore? DD's image MUST be burned into your brain by this time.

It's usually children, adolescents, or adults with little to no life of their own who live vicariously through someone else, morbidly dwelling on them with either adulation or vindictiveness.

Is there a basis or reason for what certainly seems to be an unhealthy obssession? Have you ever made a purchase from Fantazia during the ten year period in which DD sold comics, I believe it was approx. 1983 to 1993? Or do you just dwell on him because it's "trendy" for members of the CGC forums to do so and you want so much to fit in someplace?

I'm genuinely curious. I find it fascniating that the guy has been out of the hobby for over 13 years and he's still obssessed over.

What you should do is try to find him, abduct him, make him a prisoner in your basement, and then you could have him there with you to stare at for hours on end! Wouldn't that be wonderful for you?

BTW, which way do you like DD better? Paul A's blonde version, or with dark hair. Personally, I like the blonde version. It's edgier!

[AceVentura]

For whatever it's worth, the new scan of the Det 27 on the CGC forum, taken from a scan that Todd uploaded is clear enough to draw the following estimates:

Chances that it's trimmed: 10% (1 out of 10) Remote

Chance that there's any other work (color touch, reinforcing, etc.): 20% (1 out of 5) Not likely.

Based on the scan, the odds favor the book being clean, my odds reflected by the size and quality of the scan vs. margin of error.

Based on that scan, the claim or implied claim that either "Paul A", D Dupcak, or anyone else sold Todd a trimmed or restored Det 27 and "put one over on him" appears to be grandstanding (false).

[paul a]

Thanks again for the direction , Ace , but , I don,t concur that "Fracture" is a "good movie". The point of eveyone having a "weak spot" , an Achilles' heel ,is pretty damned cliched . Gosling as winner Willie Beachum ( the whale , beach the whale , will-he-beach-the-whale ?, save the cheerleader , what puerile pabulum ! ), is ludicrous . Though most D.A.s I know , do come off as " American Psycho ",easy on the psycho , heavy on the preening egomaniacal qualities , Gosling is perhaps well written as such but , fails to fully sell it . Some good movies : " The Usual Suspects ", "The Eyes of Laura Mars " and , we don't even have to mention , " Silence of the Lambs ", do we ? "TUS" because the " bad guy " wins which , strikes me as being our modern day equivalent of Horatio Alger and , " the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist". Hit the playback button : didn't someone somewhere say T. was " verbaled " ? '"TEOLM" because like it or not , know it or not , you seem to be channeling , that guy we all love to hate , just like Laura Mars . I wonder who that guy will turn out to be : me , you , T. , cop , criminal , somebody , nobody , knowbody , busybody , everybody , Tommy Roe , involved ,uninvolved ,innnocent bystander , pissed off insider , your mama ? Who do we see when we look in the mirror ? " I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together ". Hey , Ace , I'm a Cancer ! What are you ? DD is most certainly a cancer ! " No ahi better not look , ahi just might be in there !" Foghorn Leghorn . Dinner is on the table , back shortly . OUR GREATEST FOES , AND WHOM WE MUST CHIEFLY COMBAT ,ARE WITHIN . not Walt Kelly

[paul a]

Part two . I cann't believe that , this late in the game , all you maroons are still not getting the picture .I do ,however , admit that there are those whose wild shots and attempts at logic , (" a little logic goes a long way sometimes ") , have actually hit the mark . Come on , people ! " Never stand begging for what you have the power to earn " . " Proof of the pudding is in the eating . By a small sample , we may judge of the whole piece " . Bill Cosby , righhhhhht ! Do I need to sing a song here . Not big into show tunes but , I could play it on the piano if you ask me nicely. The pledge has been made and I thought we had done the reveal . Once again , I have underestimated people's intelligence or overestimated my ability to communicate . I think Strother Martin said that . We will do the reveal one more time , hopefully soon ,and if that doesn't work , I guess Iwill just have to S-P-E-L-L it out for the dain bramaged in the audience . T. , keep up with the damage control machine and the lowering of expectations ; your final response will be " but the world is a much safer place without Saddam Hussein ". Ace , yes DD is a " shape shifter " . You channeled us again . " I know who i am and who I may be , if i chose ". And , this bet thing , I want in . 10 , 20 , 30 , ? , $$$$$$$$$$ , call it ! CG esccrow the money . I'm not a betting man so correct me if I'm wrong . If I bet you ten on " the book is trimmed " and the book PLODs after proper examination by cgc or resto experts , I get a $100 payday ! What do you want to bet ? Let the grandstanding continue!!!!!!!

[AceVentura]

I'm a huge Foghorn Leghorn fan! (In my best Foghorn Leghorn voice) If we're talking, I SAY, if we're talking purely about the 27, I'd have to go with unrestored, except for, I SAY, except for what appears to be an attempt to erase something in the logo (I don't have the scan nearby, I think it was in the first part of the letter 'C' from the lettering/logo "Detective Comics").

I don't see any evidence of cleaning or touch up, and certainly no evidence of trimming, all 3 edges appearing to be normally configured. The size seems fine, I SAY, the size seems fine! Are you LISTENING to me, boy?

(Speaking normally now) Admittedly, my expertise is Silver age comics, so I am applying my observations on the 27 from a Silver age vantage point, or what I deem as appearing acceptible on Silver age scans where evidence for trim is lacking.

I'd be VERY surprised to see that 27 wind up in a purple slab. The feel and vibe of the scan is OK. Whether it came from an attic is another story. No way to tell that looking at the book because I don't buy the "all attic books would disintegrate after X number of years" story.

The book DOES have evidence of one time being stored in an attic, or place where an attic-like summer to winter heat ratio may exist because DUST shadows and SUN stripes (oxidation) are part and parcel with attic stored books.

This book COULD have been stored in an attic for many years (maybe even the first 40 years or so), and only suffered minor toning and darkening if the house was in a cool Northern climate where the attic didn't get to roasting temperatures in the summer. Or a well insulated attic for that matter.

Anyway, that's all conjecture. The only solid piece of evidence I've seen is the scan of the front and back, and based on that, applying my Silver age acumen, the book definitely does NOT look trimmed.

Now of course the possibility exists that you may well be the guy who sold Todd the Det 27, and you know exactly if something was done and what that was. You may even be DD himself! Who knows. With the CGC Forumites constantly invoking his name, chanting it daily on the CGC forums, always dwelling on DD, I always figured that it was only a matter of time before they finally went too far and conjured up DD to wreak his dastardly deception on the hobby once more, like a devil-horned phoenix risen from the ashes. Could possibly be that the Det 27 was DD's opening move and he shifted his shape to bounce a trimmed book on Todd!

And another thing, you forgot to men.. I SAY, you forgot to mention Monsters from the ID, boy. (Boy's just 2 cards short of a full deck, I tell ya'). Now where's that, I SAY, where's that mangy dawg.

[The Charlton Guy]

And , this bet thing , I want in . 10 , 20 , 30 , ? , $$$$$$$$$$ , call it ! CG esccrow the money...

I would be more than happy to act as the escrow Agent for this wager.

If you are both agreeable, send me a PM and we can work out the details.

Or work out the details here amongst yourselves and let me know what I can do to facilitate the proposed wager.

Wow! This is just like "Casino Night"!

[AceVentura]

I would be more than happy to act as the escrow Agent for this wager.

If you are both agreeable, send me a PM and we can work out the details.

Or work out the details here amongst yourselves and let me know what I can do to facilitate the proposed wager.

Wow! This is just like "Casino Night"!

Unfortunately, it's the type of wager that scientists make amongst themselves on some long-term outcome, the results that definitively decide the bet may not be available until one, some, or all of the bettors are dead!

Todd may have the book graded tomorrow, next year, or never. How do you wager on an unscheduled race that may never take place at all?

It's like betting on how the world will end. :confused:

[The Charlton Guy]

It's like betting on how the world will end. :confused:

Count me in on that too!!!:p

Now that'll really be like "Casino Night"!

[Hoss]

I've got 15000 Corral Chips on the world ending via Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man!

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5293/spmman6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[AceVentura]

I say by an asteroid, but coincidentally, on the same day that the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man rises again and makes his attempt to destroy the world. I say the asteroid beats him to it!

[paul a]

Detective (#27?) work by its very nature is subject to the occasional flash in the pan, malaprop, mal entendu, faux pas, solecism, or just plain old f*ck up in the transfer of information from one source to another. Here at the " paul a Detective #27 agency ", when we screw the poodle (le chien) and end up with a little omelette (fromage, s'il vous plait) on our face, we will come clean.
" The time will come, " the walrus said,
To talk of many things:
Of shoes__and clocks__and comic books__
Of CGC__ and kings__
And why the ether is burning hot__
On Icarus' wings."
Well, not quite yet, but, we do have some corrections, clarifications, and new evidence brought to light.


http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd300/dannybuddy/cf92907.jpg


Hey T. we need to do this CTR thing. You can get it, and the instructions by googling "Fincen Form 104". Sorry, it just slipped my mind when we did the deal. This honesty thing I've been doing this year is new to me; I've only fallen off the wagon once. We need to have our stories straight or one of us is going to be in trouble with Uncle Sam. Since you are the consumate 21 years in business/pro/expert with 5 stores and these instructions make this loud mouth schnook's head spin, can you help me out? Where the hell do I list the $150,000 in cash?






http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd300/dannybuddy/form104.jpg

[AceVentura]

Based on the scan, it's highly implausible that more than one or two of the following procedures, that you've alleged to, could have been performed on it:

cleaning
pressing
adhesives
major spine surgery
piece replacement
color touch
deacidification
page whitening
staple replacement
cover glossing
trimming

Having 11 procedures performed, even if each were done to a MINIMAL extent, would sensibly indicate that this is a moderatley to extensively restored book, mentioning "moderately" by very lenient standards.

The scans tell a completely different story. They image a book that could be very slightly restored at the most IF anything were done at all, which based on the scans, in my opinion, is highly doubtful.

Unless you're out and out lying about all these things being done on that book, for some reason, or in true CGC Forum spirit, making allegations without any actual proof, in my opinion, your allegations of 11 different procedures being performed on this Det 27 effectively eliminates you as anyone who has ever held the book in hand, unless you simply didn't recognize what you were looking at, just like Eides determining trim by holding books against each other to judge relative size.

Time will prove that ALL of these procedures couldn't have been done on the book imaged on the CGC forums. THAT, I'd be willing to bet on, as I only wager on sure things.

Scans DO tell alot about a book and while not always 100% definitive, the chances of that book having all 11 procedures performed on it are infinitely remote, 11 out of 10 to the 11th power, or 11 out of 1,000,000,000,000... (eleven out of 1 trillion, or 1 out of 100 billion). How's THAT for infinitely remote odds that all 11 procedures are performed!

BTW, I thought this was amusing as one of the reasons why Eides passed on the book, no two Golden age books being absolutely the same size and MF 52 notorious for being undersized. I'm not a Golden age expert, but at Eides, their collective expertise on Golden age is non-existant:

Eide and Kropf added there was a More Fun Comics #52, which also is a valuable Golden Age comic book and features the first appearance of the Golden Age Spectre, that was trimmed a quarter of an inch on all open sides."

I think that far too much weight has been placed on the importance of Eides' opinion that the book is trimmed. Aside from Eides' negative connotations that the book is trimmed, there is no evidence to support that opinion. And the scans certainly don't bolster Eides' credibility of their opinion on trim, or Paul A's credibility for that matter that ELEVEN procedures were done, unless the images on the CGC forums are of a different Det. 27.

[ciorac]

BTW, I'm not DD, if you're referring to me as Danny, Daniel, or Danny Boy (as CGC forum member refer to Dupcak). I'm CK, but after 6 years of erroneously being called DD, the mis-identification doesn't faze me anymore other than to occassionally cause me to point out that I'm not DD, for all the good it does.
#allhailme#

I guess I am confused. My apologies in advance for not being able to follow along. So, you are CK? Comic-Keys? Sometimes you speak of CK in the third person, so that has me puzzled a bit.

CK = Hammer, correct?

[AceVentura]

I guess I am confused. My apologies in advance for not being able to follow along. So, you are CK? Comic-Keys? Sometimes you speak of CK in the third person, so that has me puzzled a bit.

CK = Hammer, correct?

I have to, for extreme clarity when addressing particular issues. I think it's sometimes clearer for the reader to refer to myself in the second person, as CK, to better separate myself from erroneously being called DD and Robo when talking about any of the three. I do it to make things as clear as possible when my posts contain references to any combination of the three entirely different entities that I'm ALL accused of being; CK, Robo, and DD.

I get mis-addressed often, and saying CK cuts right to the chase. It eliminates the chance of misinterpretation.

For example:

I'd rather say, "CK did NOT sell T the Det 27". If I say, "I didn't sell T....", there are those who are convinced that I'm DD, so they might interpret the latter as my being DD, stating that I didn't sell T the book. I can only speak for myself, so to make things super clear for the "CK/Robo/DD Trinity theorists", my answer, "CK did not..." is a better choice of wording, in my opinion, leaving less room for misunderstanding.

[paul a]

“Who is paul a and why is he here?”

“Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.” R.Z.

Please excuse my absence. I’ve been too busy re-playing the Bugsy extortion thread and you just never know when I will manifest. As a new identity, paul a, is subservient to the long established personalities. Paul a is committed, as is Ace but to a more practical and less direct degree, to repairing the damage done by DD: the wild child has always been a problem. Ace has done the best he can but, absent paul a, he only makes excuses for DD’s doings and tries to balance the bad by doing self-serving, ego inflating good, by pointing out all the other bad people in the hobby. But enough for now, on monsters from the id. We will lay on the couch at a later date.

When I entered the “discussion” on the CGC forums, I did so with the intent of leading people to the truth. Perhaps, it would be of value if someone could re-post my CGC babblings here: you can delete the “punk,” “strippers” and “pud” type remarks as those only served to vent my frustrations at fools, rather than advance the discourse. CG, Red Hook, ciorac, Master Chief, Stupidman, OldGuy, Ace, someone? A little help here.

In the 32 pages before my debut, my 16 page CGC forum life and the 32 pages after my ban (nice symmetry – Blake and I love that sh*t), the truth was backburnered for the most part, to those totally unable to communicate anything coherent or worthwhile, but so willingly to add their nonsensical 2¢ worth, and those out to sabotage the truth in order to validate their own rose colored, blowing smoke up your arse, daydream agenda with fond recollections of their great finds of 40 long boxes of brown moderns and a run of Red Sonja 1-10.

The CGC forums will only allow a limited amount of truth. To appeal to their base, however, they will place no limits on their non compos mentis and their wild illogical speculations, mis-representations of facts, fractured timelines and the abuse of the system by insidious shills with nefarious agendas.

For the most part, you are all just a bunch of lazy fat ass key punching ADD fanboys lacking the gray matter to formulate a question, lacking the balls to ask relevant questions and lacking the ability to GTF out of your comfy chairs and do the necessary legwork yourself. Those who live by the internet alone, will die on the internet, alone: reference to human interaction intended. You expect that the world will be delivered to your door on a silver platter by dint of your “genius.” Well, don’t believe everything your mama told you!

Simple case in point, by lack of qualifying the reference of pronouns from one post to another, it is easy for someone not paying extreme attention to detail, to read “S. Borock has seen it in person and told me that it is unrestored.” The subject of the tread is “Detective #27 found in attic.” What does the book (it) refer to? Fine job of communicating. The CGC boards are here to “help the community understand.” HA.



How to mangle facts and timelines in order to prove your subjective assumptions and win friends and influence people in the Bush administration and CGC forums.

10/10 The Herald Standard publishes the first piece of investigative journalism on the Tec 27. McDevitt and Eide are interviewed. McDevitt “protects” the name of the seller he encountered on 9/29 but Eide states that the names given were “Matt and Stacy.” These names are later verified by Todd. The paper chose not to print the names. Of course both Eide and McDevitt had some name for the seller on 9/29 but neither knew at the time, who the seller really was.

10/13 Paul a mentions “Matt and Stacy.” Paul a infers Matt = DD = paul a. Because paul a mentions something that was given to the press, known by the three parties involved (DD, Eide and McDevitt,) possibly communicated by anyone of the three parties, to any other party, how can anyone make any definitive conclusion of who paul a is? Quite a leap of logic!

10/13 Paul a makes a reference to “Hannibal the Cannibal.” Was this an “original” reference to DD or was it garnered from another source or from past references. Paul a will tell you “sorry, but I can not lay claim to that reference as my own, It came to me at least second hand, if not from an even longer lineage.”

10/16 Ace Ventura mentions the movie “Fracture.”

10/21 Paul a uses a photo of Anthony Hopkins as his avatar. Anthony Hopkins is an actor. He plays different characters as an actor. He is not Hannibal Lecter. The photo posted on 10/21, which became retroactive on all of paul a’s previous posts (verify this with the Corral) is Anthony Hopkins from the movie “Fracture” not “Silence of the Lambs.” The reference is to Ace Ventura’s post of 10/16

10/23 In the New Castle News story, Eide refers to Hannibal Lecter and “Matt.” That must be proof positive of something right! Of course it is! The monsters are due on Maple Street; he’s the martian! Kill him! Kill him! Didn’t Rod teach you dopes anything?

“Deep Throat” was only revealed after 30 years and his passing. Dependent on your political leanings, you might see him as the man who brought down a paranoid schizoid that should never had been considered as presidential, or VP, material, or you might see him as a man who, recklessly and for self aggrandizement only, destroyed a great president.

Regardless the point is, the truth was told. If people are destroyed by the truth, so be it. Don’t squeeze the goose too hard trying to figure out where the golden eggs are coming from. “Sophie’s Choice,” which would you have. Who is paul a or why is he here?

The purpose of this current rant is to bury a lot of the B.S. and reconstruct the true facts and timeline. So many have so confused the truth, on purpose and by accident, that I find straightening out facts to be mind numbing and daunting. I have two more subjects I need to reconstruct for my peace of mind and then we will get down to the plain truth. Ace thanks once again for channeling DD!

There was a post however, where you might have channeled DD more than usually. Since you are a fan of re-posting old posts, I know you won’t mind me re-posting your original unedited 10/23 post (#23 on the TEC #27 comic shop purchase thread.) I got some valuable DD info from that, thanks.

“Ace Ventura 10/23/07”
It sure doesn't look like like all those procedures were performed based on the scan. And from what I'd gathered, if the book DOES have "the works" performed on it:

cleaning
pressing
adhesives
major spine surgery
piece replacement
color touch
deacidification
page whitening
staple replacement
cover glossing
trimming

then although the implication is that Dupcak's (you misspelled it) restoration "service" handled the work would have to be erroneous.

You may possibly be Dupcak (misspelling your name to attempt to confuse and confound us), and you may possibly have sold the book to T., but the work performed above is indicative of a professional restorer/conservator like Nelson, Ciconne, Heft, etc., not from what I've been given to understand about DD (a hack), especially that the scan of the book implies that it's the OPPOSITE of a Frankenbook. So with your latest revelations of what procedures were performed on this Det 27, all logic dictates that you've effecively eliminated the possibility of your being DD.

Since you were banned on the CGC forums for being a shill, and already have one ID there, you're obviously someone who loves to look at DD's picture and obssess over it. You have some photoshop skills, so you could be RedHook, Davenport, or StupidMan (no photoshop skills that I know of but with a penchant for obssessing and fetishizing DD). I'll narrow it down as you post some more.

This is very disappointing. I thought we were going to get a chance to finally voir dere DD, the Devil himself.


BTW, I though this was amusing as one of the reasons why Eides passed on the book, no two Golden age books being absolutely the same size and MF 52 notorious for being undersized. I'm not a Golden age expert, but at Eides, their collective expertise on Golden age is extremely negligible:

Eide and Kropf added there was a More Fun Comics #52, which also is a valuable Golden Age comic book and features the first appearance of the Golden Age Spectre, that was trimmed a quarter of an inch on all open sides."

"The " games " that people played were like worn-out loops of tape we inherited from childhood ,yet continued to let roll . Though limiting and destructive ,they were also a sort of comfort ,absolving us of the need to really confront unresolved psychological issues ". DD you need to listen to Ace and paul a. They are here to help you .

[AceVentura]

"This is very disappointing. I thought we were going to get a chance to finally voir dere DD, the Devil himself"

I thought you implied that YOU were DD? And if you're not, since to my knowledge, his last comic sale was circa 1993/1994, the relevance you speak of is non-existant.

Let me understand this, since now you imply that you're NOT DD. If your accusations are true, and DD is the one who walked into Eides, and later sold the Det. 27 to Todd, the camera will have captured him, if he can be positively ID'ed from the visual record.

You not only have DD tried and convicted on selling Todd a trimmed Det. 27, but now you accuse ME of being DD.

Problem is that there's been no crime committed. I think you forgot that part. With all your higher thinking and brilliant perception, you forgot some small details:

The Det 27 hasn't been proven to be trimmed.
The books that were offered to Eides haven't proven to be trimmed.
Nobody yet has reported being victimized.

There's no need for a video tape, because nobody has reported a crime. Unless YOU'RE Todd and wish to file a police report once you have proof that the book is altered. IF and when Todd discovers that he got a royal rooking, IF he got a royal rooking, and wants to go after the seller for fraud, THEN there's a need for the video tape to go after DD if he in fact is the person on that tape and Todd identifies him as his seller.

Until then, this is all idle, wild speculation meant solely for the purpose of trying to fan flames out of a cold piece of coal. Paul, you could pour all the gas you want onto a piece of coal, but if there's no spark, there's no fire.

You had me fooled though. I thought you were DD and we were finally going to get to voire-dere you.

What you SHOULD do is get a copy of the video with DD offering Eides "70 trimmed books", upload it, and let us all see it. THAT would certainly give your story some much needed validity, and win the Kudos you so desperately seek from the CGC Fourm members.

[AceVentura]

Hey Paul, Too bad this isn't Old Salem, at about the middle of the 17th century, isn't it? You could just SAY you saw DD, or anyone else you pick, flying around your house with a coven of witches and that would be enough to try, convict, and execute.

You could have them convicted for crimes that weren't committed and all kinds of neat stuff, that is, unless someone said they saw YOU flying around THEIR house with a coven of witches before you got a chance to report them to the witch-hunting experts.

What a great world THAT must have been! :)

[UnlimitedRealities]

Hey Paul, Too bad this isn't Old Salem, at about the middle of the 17th century, isn't it? You could just SAY you saw DD, or anyone else you pick, flying around your house with a coven of witches and that would be enough to try, convict, and execute.

You could have them convicted for crimes that weren't committed and all kinds of neat stuff, that is, unless someone said they saw YOU flying around THEIR house with a coven of witches before you got a chance to report them to the witch-hunting experts.

What a great world THAT must have been! :)

I'm not picking sides or anything, but feel compelled to offer kudos for some world class sarcasm#cheers#

Well done#clap#

[AceVentura]

I'm not picking sides or anything, but feel compelled to offer kudos for some world class sarcasm#cheers#

Well done#clap#

#allhailme#

Whenever I feel nostalgic for those good old, Provincial days of dipping chairs and iron maidens, "if he sinks, he's innocent and if he floats, he's guilty", I peruse the CGC forum posts by their expert inquisition, armed with their *witch's pricks in hand.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pricking
Ironically, there's far too many pricks and not nearly enough witches! #exorcist#

[UnlimitedRealities]

Aww, see, now you went and messed it up.

The handbook that came with my Sarcasm Society membership (motto: Yeah, like we need YOUR help.) clearly states that one must make ones sarcastic comment, then leave it be. If one is too susceptible to encouragement, they may drag the sarcasm out too long, at which point the original sarcastic comment becomes a comedy routine.

I'm afraid that I must now retcon your previous kudos. Sorry.

[AceVentura]

Aww, see, now you went and messed it up.

The handbook that came with my Sarcasm Society membership (motto: Yeah, like we need YOUR help.) clearly states that one must make ones sarcastic comment, then leave it be. If one is too susceptible to encouragement, they may drag the sarcasm out too long, at which point the original sarcastic comment becomes a comedy routine.

I'm afraid that I must now retcon your previous kudos. Sorry.

That last post all about pricks wasn't sarcasm. It was a CGC forum analogy.

Sometimes there's just as fine a line between sarcasm and analogies as there is between CGC forum members and pricks. ;)

[paul a]

Ace, sweet Jesus, I'm sorry! I didn't not how lonely, desperate and starved for attention you were. It's alright, I'm back together with you and the rest of the of the people who are, and are not DD. You don't have to post on the "Diamond Shipping List" thread again. You're making me feel like Sylvester's son.

Let's get back to our game and play nice or I'll go away again. How about a little help and I don't mean just from you, Ace. What's with you Corrall guys. One sentence from me would cause 5 pages of discussion at CGC. Are there any forumites here?

I know you been watching, guys. Is Super Chief here, Silver & Bronze, John T, Black Hand, the Question, Comic Kings, Blazing Bob, Todd Toadies? So many of you have privately contributed to my stone soup but lack the conviction to come forward publicly. Reminds me of the murder of Kitty Genovese in 1964.

A simple request, let's put this train wreck back on schedule to disaster while the soup is still cooking. Can someone please post nice scans of T.'s Tec #27. If someone has scans without the paper penis hanging out, all the better. By the way, when I sold T. the book, the paper penis was fully intact and a nice right angle parallel to the bottom right corner of the book when fully erect. It was dumb ass T. leaving the penis out and jamming the book into a boarded mylar, that managed to circumcise better than 60% of the right edge. Dave, I hope that didn't enter into your "proof" that the book was unrestored without T. letting you share that nugget. Comic dealers are such a shady lot. Hey T. since you removed something from the book, doesn't that count as "resto"? Q.E.D., the book is restored! Nah, just kidding, there's plenty more wonky sh*t on this book.

Here's a question on the back cover scan. Ace, would you, or any other self-proclaimed experts say that the fanning of the pages of the back half of the book is natural, or is it due to a spine roll?

[AceVentura]

Based on the front cover image, the configuration seen on the back cover is exactly what I would expect to see.

It's rolled. That's obvious from the front alone. To me, the rolled edge symmetry on the back cover scan looks perfectly normal from the standpoint of early Golden age comics.

There's absolutely no color touch anywhere on the cover. THAT, I'm 100% sure of after shifting all the colors on many stages of sampling across a wide brightness band on photoshop and magnifying the pixels.

Externally, there is nothing on either the front or back covers that would lead me to believe that the book underwent any type of alteration aside from an erased mark inside the logo letter.

Of course that doesn't completely rule out that some type of reinforcing could have been performed internally

The staples MIGHT be mismatched, but again, that in itself isn't a serious enough indication, given the unaltered overall appearance of the book, to think it anything but normal if that's the case.

MANY totally unrestored comics were produced with mismatched staples (one slightly different in color, or could have OXIDIZED at different rates over the decades, or staples cut of varied lengths). Nothing out of the ordinary on Golden age comics.

[AceVentura]

Ace, sweet Jesus, I'm sorry! I didn't not how lonely, desperate and starved for attention you were.

No need to apologize. Being very comfortable with solitude, I've never experienced feeling lonely, and I'm far from desperate. However, I AM starving. I'm going to rectify that with dinner right now. :)

[AceVentura]

I wish I knew what the hell you two were talking about. :?

The fanning is due to a spine roll, CG. :) What I see on the back cover is no surprise, unremarkable and normal, based on the front cover scan.

[The Charlton Guy]

I am soooooo out of the loop...:?

[AceVentura]

Is it possible for you to post a picture of the book in question?

Can do!:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1950245&page=3&fpart=69

[ciorac]

Based on the front cover image, the configuration seen on the back cover is exactly what I would expect to see.

It's rolled. That's obvious from the front alone. To me, the rolled edge symmetry on the back cover scan looks perfectly normal from the standpoint of early Golden age comics.

There's absolutely no color touch anywhere on the cover. THAT, I'm 100% sure of after shifting all the colors on many stages of sampling across a wide brightness band on photoshop and magnifying the pixels.

Externally, there is nothing on either the front or back covers that would lead me to believe that the book underwent any type of alteration aside from an erased mark inside the logo letter.

Of course that doesn't completely rule out that some type of reinforcing could have been performed internally

The staples MIGHT be mismatched, but again, that in itself isn't a serious enough indication, given the unaltered overall appearance of the book, to think it anything but normal if that's the case.

MANY totally unrestored comics were produced with mismatched staples (one slightly different in color, or could have OXIDIZED at different rates over the decades, or staples cut of varied lengths). Nothing out of the ordinary on Golden age comics.

Excellet analysis CK. I concur with your assessment.

[paul a]

I'm not sure i agree . Are you saying the spine is rolled because it was induced by a previous owner or becuse it came off the printing press that way.

[The Charlton Guy]

COMICSCORRAL DAMN-NEAR EXCLUSIVE
DIGITALIZED PICTURES OF THE BOOK IN QUESTION!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/detective_front.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/detective_back.jpg

[The Charlton Guy]

That's one hell of a penis. :roll:

[fulltimer56]

That's one hell of a penis. :roll:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/fulltimer56/smiley/huh-1.gif

[Hoss]

That's one hell of a penis. :roll:

I knew there was a reason I avoided this thread!

[The Charlton Guy]

Hey, don't look at me! #surrender#

My fly is zipped!#oldie#

Besides, PaulA said it first and best! #clap#


...the paper penis was fully intact and a nice right angle parallel to the bottom right corner of the book when fully erect. It was dumb ass T. leaving the penis out and jamming the book into a boarded mylar, that managed to circumcise better than 60% of the right edge...

Sexual grading descriptions. The Corral needs more of them.

[AceVentura]

I'm not sure i agree . Are you saying the spine is rolled because it was induced by a previous owner or becuse it came off the printing press that way.

Induced by reading/handling, and/or storage. Proper archival comic storage was usually not a consideration before comics were thought upon to have value. The usual mode of storage for Golden age comics were in stacks on shelves, or stacked side by side, two across, in some type of box or crate.

Spine rolls don't necessarily have to be reading induced, that is, holding the book and rolling the pages around to be held by hand as it's read. A book could be stacked, two piles side by side in one crate, and usually the crate was too small for the books in both piles to lay perfectly flat, causing an edge to roll up slightly, throughout the pile. The Books closer to the bottom would receive the worst "roll" incurred by not laying flat as each book stacked atop it added more weight.

Judging by how solid the spine and edges are, I don't think this Det 27 was handled much and I'm almost certain that the roll was caused or if was there to a small degree, was INTENSIFIED into a bigger roll by less than ideal storage, like MOST Golden age books.

In my estimation, it was produced normally, a slight roll incurred by reading, and the roll fanned further by less than ideal storage.

Of course, the book could be pressed into a higher grade. My guess now is a CGC 5.5 to 6.0 and if not rolled, pressed into a 7.0, with the shadow removed, as high as a 7.5. Hopefully, T will suppress the urge to have it altered in any way, as if I'm correct, and this is truly a midgrade toally untouched 27, it's super rare just as it is.

Even pressed, cleaned, messaged in any way possible to bring it up in an attempt to generate more dollars if ever sold, this book has TOO many identifiers that would positively ID it and make the work done VERY evident.

[paul a]

The staples MIGHT be mismatched, but again, that in itself isn't a serious enough indication, given the unaltered overall appearance of the book, to think it anything but normal if that's the case.


So, you are saying that if two or three other things say "resto" on this book, then you will throw the possibly mismatched staples on top of the other evidence right?

I had a Marvel Mystery #9 that was CGC'd 7.5 PLOD solely because of staple replacement. If only one staple is replaced, is that not a PLOD? I had bought the MM #9 back in the late 1980's from a New York dealer at an Ohio con. Dealer had perhaps the best wall of GA comics I had ever seen at a show. I targeted him to drop my load on and get a little price break. Didn't budge much on price. Picked up the MM #9 and a couple of sweet All Stars in the 30's that CGC'd blue.

The color, penetration into the spine, and the angle on the placement of the top staple, seem a little odd to me. I checked my Tec's under #100 and I couldn't find any that I know came from original owners that had mismatched staples. Can you show me some examples of such on bona fide unrestored GA books?

Hell, I know I used to replace staples back in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Might have done it myself on the MM #9.

Ace, I thought you had limited experience in GA. Didn't you claim to only be knowledgeable about SA and bronze? Can someone dig up that statement? Seems to me that you know a lot more about GA than your average GA collector! Don't be so modest! You are among friends.

[AceVentura]

So, you are saying that if two or three other things say "resto" on this book, then you will throw the possibly mismatched staples on top of the other evidence right?

I had a Marvel Mystery #9 that was CGC'd 7.5 PLOD solely because of staple replacement. If only one staple is replaced, is that not a PLOD? I had bought the MM #9 back in the late 1980's from a New York dealer at an Ohio con. Dealer had perhaps the best wall of GA comics I had ever seen at a show. I targeted him to drop my load on and get a little price break. Didn't budge much on price. Picked up the MM #9 and a couple of sweet All Stars in the 30's that CGC'd blue.

The color, penetration into the spine, and the angle on the placement of the top staple, seem a little odd to me. I checked my Tec's under #100 and I couldn't find any that I know came from original owners that had mismatched staples. Can you show me some examples of such on bona fide unrestored GA books?

Hell, I know I used to replace staples back in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Might have done it myself on the MM #9.

Ace, I thought you had limited experience in GA. Didn't you claim to only be knowledgeable about SA and bronze? Can someone dig up that statement? Seems to me that you know a lot more about GA than your average GA collector! Don't be so modest! You are among friends.

OK. Here's a book that is DEFINITELY restored and has been given a blue label:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Amazing-Spider-Man-6-CGC-6-0-ow-NO-Reserve_W0QQitemZ140179578705QQihZ004QQcategoryZ32 739QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://ads.auctionads.com/pagead/link_16ab40a37249e63306c1_ccd9e6a8c4079976fcc759fb 09b0475e_http://cgi.ebay.com/Amazing-Spider-Man-6-CGC-6-0-ow-NO-Reserve_W0QQitemZ140179578705QQihZ004QQcategoryZ32 739QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

either just the interior pages are trimmed or the cover AND the interior pages are trimmed. The book was also disassembled and pressed. Of this I have no doubts whatsoever. No marvel comic was ever put on a newsstand with an edge configuration like this. The scan shows this and I would have no need to examine the book in hand to verify this. I'm certain. I'm also certain that some elements of the trimming on that Spiderman #6 MATCH the trim characteristics of EWERT'S trimmed books.
Given these observations from a LARGE, CLEAR scan, I would assess the chances being better than 67% (2 out of 3) that whomever trimmed the #6, trimmed Ewert's books.

I'm not accusing Matt. Coincidentally, it happens to be a book offered by him and has been encapsulated blue by CGC, so no accusations are being levied against a seller. Just the book.

On the Det. 27, I see POSSIBLE mismatched staples. I say possible because it's impossible to tell definitively on that scan. The way the staples are positioned, the artwork against them makes it impossible to tell with certainty. Chance that they're mismatched.. 50%. A coin toss. Altogether possible, but would need the book in hand, or closer scans of the staples to narrow down the odds.

Aside from the staples and the erasure, NOTHING really screams "altered" on the scan of the Det 27, like the scan of the #6 screams TRIMMED and still "bleeding"!!

Also, my knowledge of Golden age IS limited, compared to my expertise of Silver age, where my strength is.

And you know, even on Silver age books, I've seen books come out of attic collections that had one silver staple, and one brass colored staple.

I've seen books in CGC blue label slabs that had half oxidized staples that were SCRAPED. You could see silver shining through where the rust had been scraped clean but rust was left on areas alongside that a rasp or fine sand-paper couldn't reach. CGC's determination of staple state and how/why different color labels are assigned are completely inconsistant and seem to be more a byproduct of whimsy than grading science.

[paul a]

[quote=AceVentura;24508] Admittedly, my expertise is Silver age comics, so I am applying my observations on the 27 from a Silver age vantage point, or what I deem as appearing acceptible on Silver age scans where evidence for trim is lacking.
The book DOES have evidence of one time being stored in an attic, or place where an attic-like summer to winter heat ratio may exist because DUST shadows and SUN stripes (oxidation) are part and parcel with attic stored books.
This book COULD have been stored in an attic for many years (maybe even the first 40 years or so), and only suffered minor toning and darkening if the house was in a cool Northern climate where the attic didn't get to roasting temperatures in the summer. Or a well insulated attic for that matter.
Anyway, that's all conjecture. The only solid piece of evidence I've seen is the scan of the front and back, and based on that, applying my Silver age acumen, the book definitely does NOT look trimmed.
Now of course the possibility exists that you may well be the guy who sold Todd the Det 27, and you know exactly if something was done and what that was. You may even be DD himself! Who knows. With the CGC Forumites constantly invoking his name, chanting it daily on the CGC forums, always dwelling on DD, I always figured that it was only a matter of time before they finally went too far and conjured up DD to wreak his dastardly deception on the hobby once more, like a devil-horned phoenix risen from the ashes. Could possibly be that the Det 27 was DD's opening move and he shifted his shape to bounce a trimmed book on Todd!
[quote=AceVentura;24371]For whatever it's worth, the new scan of the Det 27 on the CGC forum, taken from a scan that Todd uploaded is clear enough to draw the following estimates:
Chances that it's trimmed: 10% (1 out of 10) RemoteChance that there's any other work (color touch, reinforcing, etc.): 20% (1 out of 5)Not likely. #woohoo##woohoo##woohoo##woohoo##woohoo# #woohoo##woohoo##woohoo##woohoo##woohoo##woohoo##w oohoo##woohoo##woohoo#Ace ,please point out the Ewert signature. No one is buying that the mixed collection of 71 leftover Danny Dupcak/Fantazia GA books that Todd bought for $250,000.00 was an attic find. The tec 27 could well have been in an attic for 40 or 50 years before it made it to DD's hand . The concern here is the resto on the 27.It appears that the odds on resto are improving. Ace, i will still honor your 20% [ 1 gets me 5 ] bet on any other work for any amount or thing.

[AceVentura]

:

Chance that there's any other work (color touch, reinforcing, etc.): 20% (1 out of 5) Not likely.
Please point out the Ewert signature .
No one is buying that the mixed collection of 71 leftover Danny Dupcak/Fantazia GA books that Todd bought for $250,000.00 was an attic find. The tec 27 could well have been in an attic for 40 or 50 years before it made it to DD's hand . The concern here is the resto on the 27.It appears that the odds on resto are improving. Ace, i will still honor your 20% [ 1 gets me 5 ] bet on any other work for any amount or thing.

After seeing both the front AND back cover images, the chances that it's trimmed are no longer one out of 10. They're one out of a trillion. In my estimation, based on the front AND back scans, there's no way that book is trimmed on ANY of its edges.

So have we positively ascertained that DD was Todd's seller? Even though Todd hasn't stated that? And that the 70 books offered to Eides were DD's and offered to Eides by DD?

So far, Eides has said that DD offered him the books AND he has him on film. But we've yet to see any captures from or the film itself.

Eides was WRONG about the Det 27 being trimmed. Maybe he's wrong about haveing a film of DD in his store too?

That is unless you're DD, and you did trim it. One thing's for sure. Since YOU claim to be DD, all that has to be done is trace the IPs and the times of our posts to clarify that we are indeed different people posting from two different computers in two different areas, to prove that I (RK/CK) can't possibly be Paul A/DD in any way, shape, or form.

Can we do that Hoss? Solve the DD/RK/CK mystery once and for all? Let's ask Hoss to tell us where MY IP is located, where Paul A's (DD's) IP is located, and then we'll examine the TIME of our posts and see if travel between those two points is possible.

[Hoss]

As long as it's OK with paul I can look into it, provided you both make a post at a time that is very close to each other.

[paul a]

Settle down Ace! Me thinks thou doest protest too much! show me where i said you were Danny Dupcak ? show me where eides said they had danny dupcak on video ? i hear everything sooner or later and that's a new one on me.eides is a notorious cheap j@w .there are two witnesses at todd's and four witnesses at eides that confirmed seeing the new blonde edgier danny dupcak. no crime report filed, no crime committed.todd is very happy with his purchase for now and can not and will not make any claim against danny dupcak ,richard koos or rosemary lee dupcak ever. i have no problem with danny dupcak's deeds. strong believer in natural selection and you can't cheat an honest man. i am all for doing a lot more cleaning out of the gene pool. compose yourself have a nice holiday with your girls and don't worry danny dupcak will be around for a long time unless he happens to fall down some stairs.

[AceVentura]

As long as it's OK with paul I can look into it, provided you both make a post at a time that is very close to each other.

I'll make an educated guess as to where Paul's Computer is located. She's either personally posting from Eastern Pennsylvania or having them posted from the Bronx, NY.

[AceVentura]

Settle down Ace! Me thinks thou doest protest too much! show me where i said you were Danny Dupcak ? show me where eides said they had danny dupcak on video ? i hear everything sooner or later and that's a new one on me.eides is a notorious cheap j@w .there are two witnesses at todd's and four witnesses at eides that confirmed seeing the new blonde edgier danny dupcak. no crime report filed, no crime committed.todd is very happy with his purchase for now and can not and will not make any claim against danny dupcak ,richard koos or rosemary lee dupcak ever. i have no problem with danny dupcak's deeds. strong believer in natural selection and you can't cheat an honest man. i am all for doing a lot more cleaning out of the gene pool. compose yourself have a nice holiday with your girls and don't worry danny dupcak will be around for a long time unless he happens to fall down some stairs.

I don't protest anything too much. I protest just about the right amount given all the inferences made. You made inferences that I'm DD. Then you made inferences that YOU are DD. Read your past statements and interpret them a you like, but being fairly intelligent myself, and with a long scholastic history of advanced reading comprehension, I'm fairly adept at interpreting text.

After you banning from the CGC Forums, I read posts there stating that DD was caught on camera by EIDES, not Todd. EIDES is the one who mentioned that it was DD in his store and whom he caught on camera.

That might very well be. But as of yet, just like every other facet of the Detective 27 transaction event and all events leading up to and after that; there's no proof of ANYTHING that's been presented thusfar.

All the speculation on what he paid, where the book came from, who sold it to him; in fact, every question conceivable concerning this book, even dwn to whether or not it's restored or unrestored. Nothing has been proven, and you know what? WHO CARES?? It's not my book, it wasn't my book, it's not my money, I don't own Todd, and having the answers to the questions surrounding this book isn't going to change anything or affect my life in the least possible way.

And unless you're personally involved in some aspect concerning the Det 27, and have something to gain or lose pending the outcome of these answers, you should feel the same way. Evidently, you seem intelligent too. You must have AT LEAST the educational equivalent of say some kind of degree in social work. Which you possibly might have earned quite recently after a long educational hiatus, right?

Between the two of us, I'm slightly less naive. Maybe because I'm originally from Missouri. I like having EVIDENCE before I believe something blindly based on heresay.

[paul a]

there are NO posts at cgc stating that DANNY DUPCAK was caught on camera at eides. yes eides did say DANNY DUPCAK tried to sell him 70 (now corrected to 71) ga books many of which ( not all) were trimmed. once again, 4 people at eides and 2 at todd's identified the new blonde edgier DANIEL STEPHEN DUPCAK DOB 7/16/53. show me the posts about the camera. while you are at it, show me examples of mismatched staples on incontrovertible unrestored ga dc books .#woohoo# in your OWN WORDS , YOU SAW TODD'S SCANS and said " IT IS CLEAR ENOUGH TO DRAW THE FOLLOWING ESTIMATES : CHANCES THAT IT'S TRIMMED : 10%(1 OUT OF 10) ETC..." How wonderfully logical that the odds changed to " one out of a trillion" when NEW FACTS about DANNY DUPCAK'S sale of 71 ga books to todd for $250.000.00 was mentioned. i guess the chances of resto on the tec 27 will be heading into heavy negatives as i reveal the rest of the story ! who the fock do you think you are, geppi ! i want a damn sarcasm award ! ace,everyone knows the details of the sale at this point. do you know where the 70 (71-tec27) books are now ? i do. there may be blood shed over this whole matter. keep your uzi close like tony soprano . who said there are " two of us". i'm a lot of different people just like you and just like DANNY DUPCAK.#woohoo##woohoo#

[AceVentura]

there are NO posts at cgc stating that DANNY DUPCAK was caught on camera at eides. yes eides did say DANNY DUPCAK tried to sell him 70 (now corrected to 71) ga books many of which ( not all) were trimmed. once again, 4 people at eides and 2 at todd's identified the new blonde edgier DANIEL STEPHEN DUPCAK DOB 7/16/53. show me the posts about the camera. while you are at it, show me examples of mismatched staples on incontrovertible unrestored ga dc books .#woohoo# in your OWN WORDS , YOU SAW TODD'S SCANS and said " IT IS CLEAR ENOUGH TO DRAW THE FOLLOWING ESTIMATES : CHANCES THAT IT'S TRIMMED : 10%(1 OUT OF 10) ETC..." How wonderfully logical that the odds changed to " one out of a trillion" when NEW FACTS about DANNY DUPCAK'S sale of 71 ga books to todd for $250.000.00 was mentioned. i guess the chances of resto on the tec 27 will be heading into heavy negatives as i reveal the rest of the story ! who the fock do you think you are, geppi ! i want a damn sarcasm award ! ace,everyone knows the details of the sale at this point. do you know where the 70 (71-tec27) books are now ? i do. there may be blood shed over this whole matter. keep your uzi close like tony soprano . who said there are " two of us". i'm a lot of different people just like you and just like DANNY DUPCAK.#woohoo##woohoo#

You're playing yourself, Pennsylvania. That's NOT why the odds changed. Your high powered perception isn't quite as high as you think, Missy.

Odds are ALWAYS subject to change as more VISUAL evidence is presented. NOW there are two different scans of the front cover of the Det 27, where there only used to be one. After finally seeing the BACK COVER scan, and the new, larger front cover scan, ANY shred of that initial 10% doubt in my mind has been ELIMINATED.

You and I both know that the odds that DD showed up in a comic shop are about as astronomically high as the odds of that book being trimmed. Dupcak hasn't been MENTIONED as being spotted in all these years. There's pictures of him plastered EVERYWHERE, on all message boards. I'm sure that hobbyists are always on the lookout andwould have reported seeing DD if he was seen anywhere NEAR comics in the past 10 years.

And not for nothing, do you have ANY idea how EASY it would be for DD to attend a show or walk in a shop and not be noticed if he didn't want to be? How old is his mug-shot? 10 years old? Do you think folks would be able to recognize him with a full beard, glasses, and a shaved head?

Come on. You're being ridiculous. So much for all that self-professed intellect, Pennsylvania.

Personally, I really don't care about the Det. 27. And there certainly won't be any blood-shed that I'm concerned over. Reveal whatever you want. I didn't buy it, I didn't sell it, so it doesn't concern me, unless you infer that I'm DD and I sold it to Todd. Then it DOES concern me because THAT'S an outright lie. As far as I know, you haven't told a word of truth yet. And where's your proof of ANYTHING you say, Pennsylvania?

Also, you may want to check some of your erroneous ideas. There was a link posted on the CGC message boards to ANOTHER message board where Eides stated that "He had DD on his store tape", not that I give a damn other than keeping the facts straight that you make murkier and consistantly misconstrue with each new post.

And what's your fascination with this Det 27? What's your stake in it that you're the only one that keeps bringing it back up. They're DONE talking about on the CGC forums until some NEW event or new piece of evidence is presented.

You have all this Blood-shedding evidence? POST some of it. Not just pictures from Old Guy's web site and wild tales. Dazzle us. Show us how much you know about this Det 27 with HARD FACTS and EVIDENCE that can be PROVEN or DISPROVEN. Not just talk.

On the other hand, it's good to see you take an interest in something other than dead-end treasure hunts, Pennsylvania.

[paul a]

[quote=AceVentura;26407]

Odds are ALWAYS subject to change as more VISUAL evidence is presented. NOW there are two different scans of the front cover of the Det 27, where there only used to be one. After finally seeing the BACK COVER scan, and the new, larger front cover scan, ANY shred of that initial 10% doubt in my mind has been ELIMINATED.

Also, you may want to check some of your erroneous ideas. There was a link posted on the CGC message boards to ANOTHER message board where Eides stated that "He had DD on his store tape", not that I give a damn other than keeping the facts straight that you make murkier and consistantly misconstrue with each new post.
#woohoo##woohoo##woohoo#
lie after lie after lie. the scans you referred to were "TODD'S" your words ! check posts check dates . front and back the best shots available short of DANNY DUPCAK'S personal copies detailing all the resto on the tec 27. i can understand how you might get them confused! show me the link to the" message board where eides stated he had dd on his store tape". LIES LIES LIES you didn't get that from your pa, must have been your ma and the crazy shit she did to you. you have a very bad habit of avoiding questions by claiming that you are being persecuted and that the questioner is a liar. damn , that happens to you all the time ! there is a medical term for that.NEXT LIE PLEASE ! and don't call me shirley!

[paul a]

http://cgi.ebay.com/HULK-1-APPT-NM-ORIGINAL-1962-ISSUE_W0QQitemZ180182007498QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3273 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://ads.auctionads.com/pagead/link_16ab40a37249e63306c1_ccd9e6a8c4079976fcc759fb 09b0475e_http://cgi.ebay.com/HULK-1-APPT-NM-ORIGINAL-1962-ISSUE_W0QQitemZ180182007498QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3273 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


http://cgi.ebay.com/FANTASTIC-FOUR-1-APPT-FN-VFN-ORIGINAL-1961-ISSUE_W0QQitemZ180181998585QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3273 1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://ads.auctionads.com/pagead/link_16ab40a37249e63306c1_ccd9e6a8c4079976fcc759fb 09b0475e_http://cgi.ebay.com/FANTASTIC-FOUR-1-APPT-FN-VFN-ORIGINAL-1961-ISSUE_W0QQitemZ180181998585QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3273 1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


I am surprised that Ace hasn't listed these on the Eerie Blue Label thread. They are not CGC'd, but the seller, though he does list them as "restored" fails to list them as trimmed. On Q & A, on the Hulk #1, he says "no trimming." I guess the atomic explosion blew Dr. Banners shoes off and all of the Hulk's left knuckles. Top seems a little suspect too. But you know what they say "can't tell trim from a scan!" The cover and page configuration on the FF #1 is scary, especially right top corner. Looks like an early DD hack job. He got a fair amount of the chipping off but there is still a lot there. I guess Robojo is scrapping the bottom of the barrel. 5 out of 14 are noted as restored. I think 2008 might be a good time for Robo to get a new identity. P.S. he even has an " attic " story to sweeten the pot.

[malaprop]

Allow me (as a veteran of the Change One Letter game) to make my own humble contribution to this discussion. I believe it should be "hearsay", not "heresay".

[The Charlton Guy]

I guess the atomic explosion blew Dr. Banners shoes off and all of the Hulk's left knuckles...

That's one of the reasons, that in these early issues, Betty calls him "Stumpy".

[The Charlton Guy]

Hoss, if you want to check Paul A's IP, it's coming from the Pocono region of Penn. It'll be the same IP that Natacha was posting from when Jan signed on as Natacha, impersonating her.


It's not the same IP address. Not even close.

And my personal correspondence from both parties that you mention make it clear to me that Paul A is just that: Paul A.

[AceVentura]

http://cgi.ebay.com/HULK-1-APPT-NM-ORIGINAL-1962-ISSUE_W0QQitemZ180182007498QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3273 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://ads.auctionads.com/pagead/link_16ab40a37249e63306c1_ccd9e6a8c4079976fcc759fb 09b0475e_http://cgi.ebay.com/HULK-1-APPT-NM-ORIGINAL-1962-ISSUE_W0QQitemZ180182007498QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3273 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


http://cgi.ebay.com/FANTASTIC-FOUR-1-APPT-FN-VFN-ORIGINAL-1961-ISSUE_W0QQitemZ180181998585QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3273 1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://ads.auctionads.com/pagead/link_16ab40a37249e63306c1_ccd9e6a8c4079976fcc759fb 09b0475e_http://cgi.ebay.com/FANTASTIC-FOUR-1-APPT-FN-VFN-ORIGINAL-1961-ISSUE_W0QQitemZ180181998585QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3273 1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


I am surprised that Ace hasn't listed these on the Eerie Blue Label thread. They are not CGC'd, but the seller, though he does list them as "restored" fails to list them as trimmed. On Q & A, on the Hulk #1, he says "no trimming." I guess the atomic explosion blew Dr. Banners shoes off and all of the Hulk's left knuckles. Top seems a little suspect too. But you know what they say "can't tell trim from a scan!" The cover and page configuration on the FF #1 is scary, especially right top corner. Looks like an early DD hack job. He got a fair amount of the chipping off but there is still a lot there. I guess Robojo is scrapping the bottom of the barrel. 5 out of 14 are noted as restored. I think 2008 might be a good time for Robo to get a new identity. P.S. he even has an " attic " story to sweeten the pot.

Well if it's so scary, then don't look at it.

First off, Robojo's FF1 isn't IN a blue label, so it doesn't belong in the "eerie Blue label thread", understand? That's a thread about blue labels. The FF #1 isn't CGC graded. You do understand the difference, right?

Secondly, You're NOT anywhere NEAR the expert you THINK you are on subjects such as the wide range of factory production tolerances on characteristics on FF #1 right edge cuts.
Thirdly, Why are you questioning ME about Robojo's inventory? Ask him.

[The Charlton Guy]

We're not going to get back into this family business, are we?

[AceVentura]

We're not going to get back into this family business, are we?

Out of respect for the Corral, no comment.

[AceVentura]

Deleted by Ace, out of respect for Hoss, CG, and the House.

[The Charlton Guy]

Look, we are going to sort this out, have a talk with Paul A., and see where the chips fall.

In the meantime, I ask that both of you lay off for a couple of days.

Thanks,

C.G.

[AceVentura]

Look, we are going to sort this out, have a talk with Paul A., and see where the chips fall.

In the meantime, I ask that both of you lay off for a couple of days.

Thanks,

C.G.

Done!! I was just answering Paul's lines of thought that I had missed previously, lest anyone at ringside think I was being evasive by not doing so. You know what they say, "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I've removed it because it has nothing to do whatsoever with comics, even remotely.

I felt that if I address it, in some people's minds, I'm "protesting too much".
If I ignore it, in some people's minds, I'm "skirting the issues".

Trying to pick the lesser of two evils is usually a losing proposition, but my position is pro-forum 100%, and that means honoring all requests by my most gracious hosts, the priviledge of posting which I never take for granted.

Not a word further from me directed to or answering in any way any additional or past Paul A text, until I'm notified otherwise.

In my opinion, honoring the house comes first, everything else second. And that's the way EVERY GUEST should feel when they enjoy a host's hospitality. :)

[The Charlton Guy]

Thanks.

For those who care:

Ace has edited his posts of his own volition because he is being trolled by Paul A.

I have contacted Paul A. and said that as long as the discussion remains semi-civil, and stays rooted in the discussion of comics or restoration, that he may continue. Hell, I "attacked" Ace for five months myself.

If I find out that Paul A. is here for the sole purpose of personally attacking Ace based on anything other than comic book related issues, he (Paul A.) is outta here.

I need to speak with you (Paul A.) further via Personal Message. Thanks.

[jaydeebee]

Thanks.

For those who care:

Ace has edited his posts of his own volition because he is being trolled by Paul A.

I have contacted Paul A. and said that as long as the discussion remains semi-civil, and stays rooted in the discussion of comics or restoration, that he may continue. Hell, I "attacked" Ace for five months myself.

If I find out that Paul A. is here for the sole purpose of personally attacking Ace based on anything other than comic book related issues, he (Paul A.) is outta here.

I need to speak with you (Paul A.) further via Personal Message. Thanks.


Interesting that you should bring this up. It's discussions like this one which have caused me to try to come up with a new slogan for the Corral, one that sets it apart from say, that eBay discussion board. I was thinking something like this;

"Come to the Corral where we are ALL in agreement with everything"


What do you think? Good or effingly pathetic? :roll:

[The Charlton Guy]

I don't agree with that post.

I don't agree with everyone.

Sometimes, I don't agree with anyone.

And this morning, I am certainly not agreeable to much of anything.

We have a pretty strict policy of banning Members who come here with the sole purpose of harrassing or trolling another Member.

Paul A. has come very close to that line and I am just doing what I can to keep him from stepping over it.

I am not after "one big agreeable family" here. I just want to keep both Members if possible.

If it's not possible, I want to know that as soon as possible and act accordingly.

That's all.

[jaydeebee]

"Come to the Corral where we are ALL in agreement with everything" - O.J. - eBay Comics Discussion Board.

As you may have guessed, the quote in brown shown above, hence-forth to be referred to as the brown-quote, is from a very vocal detractor of the Corral who posts on the ePay board.


If this thread does nothing else, it proves that we not only allow disagreement here at the Corral, but that we actually encourage it, as long as it remains civil. No report-button nonsense. We have moderators who have enough common sense (for the most part) to understand that true discussion isn't just about two or more people talking, but about two (or more) people being allowed to express their ideas without fear of reprisal from some unaccountable troll with a grudge.

Despite what you might personally feel about the various posters on this thread and there reputation(s), whether warranted or unwarranted; does anyone seriously believe that this thread would have been possible on the eBay board?

So perhaps the best slogan for the Comics Corral should be; Comics Corral, We Discuss, You Decide. Um, or how about; Comics Corral - Fair and Balanced....er, maybe not?

We now return you to the discussion, already in progress.:o

[The Charlton Guy]

Lol....

How about;

The COMICS CORRAL:
"The Home of the Voice of Reason!"





JUUUUUUUST kidding!!! :D

[malaprop]

"reprisal from some accountable troll with a grudge. "

Unaccountable maybe? I don't have a dog in this fight, just trying to keep up.

[jaydeebee]

"reprisal from some accountable troll with a grudge. "

Unaccountable maybe? I don't have a dog in this fight, just trying to keep up.

I don't know what you mean.:cool:

Another advantage of the Corral...the ability to edit one's message!:D

[jaydeebee]

Lol....

How about;

The COMICS CORRAL:
"The Home of the Voice of Reason!"





JUUUUUUUST kidding!!! :D


ACK!#exorcist#

[malaprop]

No big deal JDB, just wondering if unaccountable may make more sense in that context. A troll who comes in and is able to say things and push report buttons without being held to account makes sense to me. I don't understand what an accountable troll might be.

[jaydeebee]

No big deal JDB, just wondering if unaccountable may make more sense in that context. A troll who comes in and is able to say things and push report buttons without being held to account makes sense to me. I don't understand what an accountable troll might be.

An accountable troll obviously is a troll who admits that he is a troll and takes responsibility for his actions...either that or it's what you get when you type too fast and forget to put the prefix "UN" in front of accountable.:?

[illuminated]

Can't read this thread. Do we know whether the book Detective 27 in question was restored? Was this a scam? This has puzzled me for months. Cliff Notes, please. I am lazy.

[camper49]

This isn't another one of those CORRAL April Fool's set-ups again, is it?

[Hoss]

Nope...we started planning this years April Fools gag last November.

As far as that book is concerned...I don't know. Maybe CG can give some info on it?

[The Charlton Guy]

It is a convoluted mess...but here is a very recent (March 7th, 2008) post from CGC ID "Eide", presumed to be Greg Eides, one of the most prominent dealers and collectors in the U.S. regarding this book (and apparently, many others):


Here is a list of the 71 comics that Danny Dupcak tried to sell Eide's Entertainment
on 9/29/07
************************************************** ****************************************
Detective 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 22(second copy), 23, 25, 26
Adventure 24, 27, 28, 29, 30, 33, 33, 35(second copy), 37, 38, 41
More Fun 34, 43
All of these, are trimmed on three sides and each comic within a title, is the exact same
size as if they came from bound volumes. All have sharp cut edges, sharp corners and are
visibly smaller than any Golden Age DC from the same period I have ever seen or owned.
************************************************** ****************************************
Action #7 and #11 appeared to be trimmed on three sides but not as severely as the above
books.
************************************************** ****************************************
Various books appeared to be trimmed on only one or two sides. Some, like the TEC #27 are
only trimmed on the front half of the book right side to accommodate for unremoved spine
roll. In other words, spine roll fanning is evident on the back half, but not translated
to the front half of the book, which displays an unnatural straight cut. The TEC #27 is
top trimmed plus it has several other curious aspects.
Detective 27, 35
Superman 2, 11
More Fun 52
Movie Comics 1
************************************************** ****************************************
These Dupcak DC's did not appear to be trimmed. Ringers? They are suspect of other monkey
business.
Detective 49, 52, 70
Adventure 76, 81
Superman 20, 21
Action 9, 10
Batman 41
************************************************** ****************************************
These 31 Dupcak books were not scrutinized for trimming. A top to bottom piece of trimmed
(cut off) paper was found in the Daredevil #42.
Secrets of the Invisible Crew
Black Cat #14
Daredevil #42
Famous Funnies #55
Four Color #396
Jeanie #14
Patsy Walker #19
Tip Top #29
True Comics #45
Spirit 10/25/42
Amazing Mystery Funnies Vol 2 #3
Vol 2 #4
Vol 1 #3
Vol 1 #2
Crackajack Funnies #4
All Great Confessions (Fox Giant)
Jungle Comics #59
Keen Detective Vol 1 #10
Vol 1 #11
Vol 2 #2
Vol 2 #3
Vol 2 #4
Vol 2 #5
Vol 2 #11
Mystery Men Comics Vol 1 #3
Rangers Comics #26
True Crime Vol 1 #5
Venus #3
Wonderworld #10
Zip Comics #2
All Of Danny's books were clean, glossy and flat. Paper quality varied widely. Not quite your
typical "attic" find.



Here is a link to the entire thread (give yourself a couple of days to wade through this one):

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=2247492&Searchpage=1&Main=107771&Words=+Eide&topic=0&Search=true#Post2247492

[The Charlton Guy]

From there, the book apparently made its way to Todd McDevitt.

Here's an interesting snippet of video from the local news regarding this book and this transaction:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9C1H8hLK-wY&feature=related

[The Charlton Guy]

As synchronicity would have it, I met Todd and purchased a pile of Charltons from him at the Buffalo Con this winter.

Mordo: one of them is winging its way to you as I type (not the Gorgo). :D

[malaprop]

I'm amazed at what sounds like totally amateurish attempts at trimming books. They trimmed half a book and left the other half fanned out from spine roll? Many years ago, I did some trimming, before I knew it was a problem (the '70s). I have one of those still in my collection (Submariner #1) and it looks pretty darned good if I do say so myself. Sounds like these guys may want to hire me.

(not the Gorgo).
No, I'm hoping that one is winging its way to me! LOL.

[The Charlton Guy]

It is...what I meant is that that particular book didn't come from Todd.

But one of your bonus books did...a "Reptilicus" with particularly horrendous artwork.

And one other bonus book...(not telling...:cool:), that I have had for some time.

[The Charlton Guy]

And yet another verrrrry interest exchange on the CGC Thread (from today, March 12th):





I've been looking into this matter for several weeks. The evidence is all still circumstantial and relies upon Eide's (and his staff) observations. From what I know of Eide there is little to no reason to believe he is not being genuine in his beliefs and statements. Whether he is accurate is a different story and does not bear upon his credibility.
Eide's does not know Danny. Following the encounter he was shown a copy of the famous mugshot that was taken more than ten years ago. He believes that the man who came into his store definitely resembles Danny, who apparently may have also had some plastic surgery and does not possess the "strongman" physique he used to have.
It makes perfect sense for Danny, who lives on Long Island, to take books to a comic book store just a few hours drive away for the purpose of laundering them through a sale. There are many comic book collectors and, yes, even dealers (especially LCS owners) who do not frequent the "circuit" and frankly do not know many people in the hobby outside of their customers and know even less of Danny (and definitely would not recognize him).
Whether this individual was Danny I do not yet know, but without a doubt the circumstances surrounding the visit to Eide's store was unequivocally suspicious and requires further investigation. There are many legitimate questions that remain that hopefully will someday have answers.
Yes, there are many questions unanswered.
Eide says it was Danny, but he so far has not gone further and explained--at least in this forum--why he thinks it was him and how certain he is. Given how significant it would be if Danny was the seller, I think he owes it to the hobby and Todd to go into more detail and let us weigh the evidence.
Second, Eide should describe why he thinks the 27 was trimmed. Is he certain? What does he think about reports the the book passed muster at CGC?
And third, Eide recently said on this forum (assuming it was him, and Metropolis and others seemed to think it was), that Todd purchased all the books in the lot, and that they have been sold. I could be wrong, but I do not recall that Todd or anyone else ever claimed that he bought the lot in the months following this controversy coming to light. And you would think that would have been mentioned in that video of Todd. At any rate, I'd like to know if he did buy them, and if so what happened to them. Were they sold, and if so, did those books pass CGC review and come back clean? Or are they confirmed to be trimmed (as Eide claimed from the beginning).



As a BA collector, I have absolutely no interest in this, but I'm going to comment as much as I can without feeling that I am violating confidences.

My only motivation in doing this is that I have this fear that there is a strong possibility that the boards and certain members are being manipulated, and that only one side of this story is being portrayed here, while numerous facts have gone unmentioned.

My understanding from someone who has seen the books, held them, and is in contact with Todd (someone who I trust, and who is sophisticated regarding restoration, and has decades in the hobby) is that Todd bought all of the books. Many of the books share common distributor or newstand marks.

They have since been sold to some of the most advanced collectors in the hobby, and some of them have been submitted and received blue labels and, as many know, have been sold for record amounts in the recent Heritage auction.

Other things I've been told-Todd is in continued contact with the seller. And, that Eides continues to contact several board members (why none have disclosed this on the boards, I don't know) to recruit them to help fight his battle, both by email and by phone.

Interestingly, in these emails Eides unequivocally states that the seller of the books was DD, and repeatedly calls them the "Dupcak books" and "Dupcak Detectives". He gives incredibly detailed and specific information regarding 29 books. Also, Eides has no problem disclosing the current ownership of the books to people that wouldn't have any prior knowledge of this.

One board member, I've been told, has (months ago) hired a PI to help determine that the seller was DD, no doubt as a public service. Interestingly, no evidence of this has been disclosed publicly.

So, we either have the greatest find of books in the last decade, or the greatest scam in the hobby's industry. Personally, I find it hard to believe that one dealer was able to detect what he has described in emails as pervasive trimming, but that Todd, my friend, numerous other dealers, some of the most sophisticated GA collectors, AND CGC have ALL missed numerous instances of what has been described as BLATANT trimming in a group of high-profile books.

That's it. I'm done. I don't know anything for certain, aside from the fact that virtually none of this has been portrayed on the boards. That, and the frequent nagging feeling that the boards are being used to advocate one party's agenda.

[disneyteddies]

Only way to find out for sure is to send it to CGC which he doesn't seem to want to.

[Eide]

I will be by in a few hours. If you can post the biggest highest resolution images of the front and back of the Tec#27 you well save us all a lot of time. Also , i am here to tell the story not to answer questions. I am here as who i am . if you come on here and will not meet me on full disclosure of who you are , go back to the cgc boards and assist them with their damage control.

[The Charlton Guy]

Here are the scans that I have of the book in question:

Front cover:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/detective_front.jpg

Rear cover:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/detective_back.jpg

Detail of bottom front corner:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/27-corner-front.jpg

Detail of the same corner, back:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/27-corner-back.jpg

As for my real name, that is pretty common knowledge around here and on the CGC boards, and I am a full member of the Network of Disclosure, where my full name is also listed (here):

http://www.networkofdisclosure.com/list.php

It's Soren Thomas.
I ain't sayin' what my middle name is. #oldie#

[Eide]

1. Back cover is too white considering multiple stains and two large dust shadows on front cover. This book was mistreated. A book that was mistreated like this, left out to collect dust shadows and stains, will most likely bear more evidence of damage on the edges than this book does.

2. "BOB KANE" signature has no "KANE", which as stated prior on CGC should translate to a bigger yellow border at top above the circle.

3. Top staple is a replacement and it is not a vintage replacement. Indicative of further tampering, Danny pointed this out.

4. Check mark in "C" is erased.

5. Why is the remaining (after recent tearing) siamese paper so dark when compared to the small amount of interior pages showing at the front bottom right hand corner? See detail.

6. Why is the front bottom cut so straight, except for a small bump at the right corner, while the back cover is cut so unstraight?

7. From in hand inspection, all of the dust shadows and stains have been glossed over. The entire texture of the cover feels the same everywhere. There is no feel of damage from stains or shadows.

8. Siamese fold is on the centerfold. Back half of opening edge is not trimmed. Front half of opening edge is trimmed.

9. No interior page visibility except small amount bottom right corner front cover.

10. Unrestored DC books of this era, feature mostly underhang covers. Meaning that, on at least one of the three edges, interior pages extend past the cover and are visible. Over hang covers frequently occur where any one or more of the 3 cover edges extend past the interior pages. I have never seen an unrestored DC book of this era that has 3 edges with DEAD ON cuts. A dead on cut, which CGC graders note as being the #1 indicator of a trimmed book is a cut where the cover and pages were trimmed at the same time and all are trimmed on the exact same cut/flat plane. The top, cover and pages, are cut dead on. The right front cover and the front half of interior pages are cut dead on. Bottom cover and pages are cut, close to dead on, except for a small bump, at right corner. See detail.

11. Visible color touch that breaks the front cover definition line on "blue hat" and red color across from "D" in "DETECTIVE". That color touch line seems to go toward the bottom of the "D" and then turns a130° angle up.

12. Cover definition line at middle of banner fades away, then comes back too strong.

13. In hand, signs of cleaning and pressing.

14. Something is odd with the "S’s" in "STARTING THIS ISSUE."

15. Why was "The Detective #27 Attic Find" story never given any publicity by CBG magazine or Wizard magazine? Publicity was only on mass media. The two most respected fan news sources had nothing to say? Todd's last mention of the book occurred on 10/13/07 (the book was announced on 10/09/07,) when he responded to Foolkiller’s post #1958400 - 10/13/07 06:41 PM on the CGC message board thread "Re: DETECTIVE COMICS #27 found in attic" page 46: #1958660 - 10/13/07 10:23 PM Re: DETECTIVE COMICS #27found in attic [Re: Foolkiller]

Foolkiller - As for two other books being shown... you know what they say Todd, loose lips sink ships.

Todd McDevitt - You know what else they say...? Don't believe everything you read in the news. They have missed a lot of facts.

Todd has not spoken since and the book, though said to be a "blue label" 6.5 has not been shown on any website or board. Why? What has the news media missed? Why did Todd deny buying the other 70 books? Could it be a case of trying to hide the source of books? It is common knowledge now that David T. Anderson was middleman to Steve Geppi's purchase of the 70 comics (71 minus Detective #27 equals 70) from Todd for $1000,000 (the amount paid to Danny) and a $2,000 finders fee.

16. The 71 books came from Danny Dupcak. Todd was informed that Danny Dupcak was the seller on 10/13/07. Todd had no questions for and failed to call the informer back. PROVENANCE, PROVENANCE, PROVENANCE.

Opening arguments for the prosecution are concluded. What says the defence?

[The Charlton Guy]

Just to be clear on one thing before the "defense" wades in; are you stating that you have indeed had the book "in hand"?

If so, when and for how long did you inspect the book?

[Eide]

Ask Vince at Metroplois if these match the list faxed to him on 10/4/07, five days before the purchase of the book was announced on 10/9/07




http://www.eides.com/sep2907pg1.jpg





http://www.eides.com/sep2907pg2.jpg

[The Charlton Guy]

Now that's better.

Is that your handwriting?

Your initial assessment of the books?

And of course the quarter-million dollar question:

If this is your handwritten assessment, who brought the books in for you to assess them?

And no, I won't be contacting Vince, as I have absolutely no vested interest in any of these books, other than the fact that they have made their way into the greater market-place.

I don't like to be hard on you Greg, I really don't. But beating around the bush isn't going to garner you many friends. I hope you have seen that by now.

I hope you will continue to just tell what you know and show any other evidence that substantiates your allegations.

[The Charlton Guy]

Greg: Would K.K. be willing to come here and substantiate who it was who brought the books into your store and the details of this assessment?

What name did this person go by?

[The Charlton Guy]

Did all of the books have check marks on the covers?

[The Charlton Guy]

Like this one that you noted as "partially trimmed"?

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/Superman2.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/Superman2B.jpg

[The Charlton Guy]

Or this one that you note as "severely trimmed"?

But this one doesn't have a check mark:


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/Action7.jpg



http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/Action7B.jpg

Let's be clear on this: This is the same book that you assessed in your shop last September?

[The Charlton Guy]

Mr. Eide, nobody is going to take you seriously if you don't (or can't) answer these questions.

[malaprop]

My guess is the whole check mark got trimmed off.

[habib]

I know.....this whole thing leading up to this years April Fool's joke....right :twisted:

[The Charlton Guy]

One can only hope so...

[Eide]

Still Typing

[Eide]

Bear with me. The investigation is still on going and the scope continues to expand. First, let me add a point to my notes on the Tec #27

17. The book has a spine that is rolled from back to front. Per Danny's statement, this is likely an induced spine roll vs. a rolled spine that came off the printing press. An induced spine roll occurs immediately by manual manipulation or, by long term poor stacking. The manual manipulation, rolling the book into a tube or folding the book in half as it is read, causes the most incidental damage to the front cover but, the poor stacking method also can cause incidental damage to the front cover. The incidental damage to the front cover would demonstrate itself by stress lines that might even break color. If those lines break color, they are easily disguised by color touch. There is no visual evidence on the front cover of this book of coincidental damage from the spine roll.

Now a plea, please stop and think before you post. Check your facts and dates. Once you take occurrences out of order, you can spin the events any way you want. On the CGC boards, there are those who exist to do just exactly that.
For instance , sour grapes for the last time. I had two targets from the minute DD left my store: The truth and DD. I am on good terms with most of my local competitors. I speak with and have no problem sending people to competitors BWL, the Attic, Duncan, JW, Dave's, Ron and Roy. I consider JY a friend. There has never been any known or unknown animosity to TM but he was most certainly my strongest competition. My investigation began on 9/29/07 and that has been verified by at least two well known and trusted individuals on the boards. When TM announced 10 days later (10/9) that he had purchased the book(s) that I was investigating, he placed himself in the line of fire of the investigation. Also, by not heeding the various warnings he received by trusted individuals on the boards and people knowledgeable about DD, he was no longer an innocent bystander. The targets have shifted as the investigation continued but, DD remains the starting point and the truth remains the final objective.
Some facts to keep in mind about me.

1. I type slower than G. B. Love.

2. Until 9/29 I had next to zero computer skills and no internet savy. I have learned to post/navigate/investigate on the internet and chat rooms almost totally by trial and error.

3.I had no prior experience of chat room etiquette or politics.

4. Having been my own boss, with the exception of being a freelancer
in a unrelated but highly individualistic field, since the age of 20, I am used to being in charge.

5. Over the years, I have developed a naturally abrassive but honest personality. People either love me or hate me. There is no middle ground and I am fine with that

6. I do not suffer fools and I will not tolerate any one that tries to fool me.

7. I see things through to their conclusion.

I am Greg Eide. I opened my current business 3/18/72 when I was 20. I did a con the summer before and I had also set up in the back room of a record shop that I managed while in HS.
I have collected comics for over 43 years and I have sold comics for over 37 years. My general manager has 29 years of buying/selling/grading plus 6 years of collecting.
On Saturday 9/29/07, my manager received a phone call around 11am from a man calling himself Matt. He said he had about 70 comics from the 30's and 40's. He specifcally said he had a tec#27. My manager asked him the size of that book and he replied 8 x 10. My manager explained about the treasury edition and Matt responded I understand. My manager explained that the owner would have to be present and he could be available after 1pm.
Matt showed up, current Overstreet in hand, at 1pm. He introduced his "wife" Stacy. My manager arranged the 71 loose books in order by title, company and #'s.My manager proceeded to grade and price all the non-DC books first; see page that starts with Secrets of Invisble Clan.
TO BE CONTINUED when I have the time. The investigation is still on going and I have a relative to care for, a demanding business to attend to , employees to drive me crazy, bills to be paid, customers to exasperate me, food to be eaten, hygine to maintain, and sleep to get away from it all and refresh myself to do it all over again one more time.

[The Charlton Guy]

Thanks Greg.

We all appreciate your update and your candor.

I am pretty much in the same boat (as far as hard work and sleep deprivation) so I commiserate.

And again, we appreciate your continued information regarding this lot of books.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions though, so we hope you'll be back soon.

I want to apologize if I have offended you with previous posts, but you need to realize, and I will remind you, that this whole scenario made its way to my door, and I really have done my best to listen to all sides of the story while trying not to make any judgements.

I hope you will continue to tell us more specifics about this very interesting and convoluted lot of books.

Thanks again and best regards,

Soren (C.G.)

[The Charlton Guy]

One thing before you continue though.

I will be "re-capping" the most important of the outstanding questions regarding your claims, but first, I would just ask that you answer this one question.

Did you write the following posts and create the following Photoshop images that were posted on October 15th and October 23rd?

A yes or no will do, but if the answer is no, you really need to tell me (us) who did.


T. you’ve played a great game! I give you kudos for your ingenuity, deviousness, tenacity, and greed. My two spies from Shittim (don't even think of "spooning" that, look it up in your Funk and Wagnalls or the Bible, Joshua 2) have invaded Jericho. The seven trumpet blowing priests are at the wall (Joshua 6) and the walls are tumbling down. All the inhabitants will be massacred, I curse your city and destroy it.

Many who say they can see are really blind and I would never save a lamb from the slaughter, but T., I should have charged you more for all the publicity you milked from this. Are you going to milk the publicity out of your shame also? Do you call the news every time you take a dump? How long did it take you to move the All American #16 piece of shit that you stole from a little old lady? God, you are totally shameless. You are the whore of Babylon. I should have doubled the price if I knew what you were going to get out of it. International, all over the internet, Fox News, papers, radio, you got millions of $$$$$$ of free publicity and conned more people than Ewart, Dupcak, Metropolis, CGC, Heritage, Old Guy, Geppi, Newsarama, PGX, etc, etc, etc, put together! Damn you! T. you said “don’t believe everything you read in the news. They have missed a lot of facts!” God almighty, how prophetic! Time to fill them in T. ”This is the best.” How’s your stomach feel now that that you’ve entered the comic book crooked villain hall of shame as both greatest chump and greatest deceiver? How’s about posting a new Comic Logic at your own personal Fox News explaining how, anyone would have done the same thing and how great an investment Batman is! Hey T. you didn’t burn, loose ,bury or have the book stolen from you did you? What a shame! Was it insured? How many “experts” looked at the book and said it was good! Seniors? What, your Mommy and Daddy? How long can you afford to sit on that book without selling it? Cash crunch? Maybe it should get its own pedigree, the TM. Yeah the TM! Let’s coin a new term “THE TM” Now you can be infamous in the hobby after you are laughed out of business and branded the greatest chump and deceiver that comic fandom has ever seen. I guess you felt lucky, punk. You pulled the trigger. You brought this on yourself. You and you alone caused all this God awesome chaos which will cripple comics dealing for years or even decades.

Hey T., I’m declaring my payday to the IRS! Need to keep everything nice and legal. You know how they hate those no contract, under the counter, possible money laundering, strictly cash, unreported exchanges of large sums of money. Almost forgot to report that FF 4 for five grand..

Let this be a lesson to every fan boy around the world and remember George Santayana. Look something up in a BOOK for a change, you morons. The Internet is the devil’s tool. Robert Burns “the best laid SCHEMES O’ MICE AN’ MEN GANG AFT AGLEY.” You were given ample opportunity to be a man T., and you blew it! What will you answer to now?

And for all you idiots who knew, didn’t ask questions and let yourselves be willingly fooled… “the hottest circles in hell are reserved for those who in times of crisis maintained their neutrality,” Dante. You can say anything you want on the forums, right! That’s what I’ve been told! People say enough shit about me. The other shoe is falling, tick tock, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

It’s all over now except for the crying. Your diligence and dedication to self promotion have paid a handsome dividend. Take a bow T. You certainly deserve it. Now that’s entertainment.







http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd300/dannybuddy/d06fdf09.jpg



Detective (#27?) work by its very nature is subject to the occasional flash in the pan, malaprop, mal entendu, faux pas, solecism, or just plain old f*ck up in the transfer of information from one source to another. Here at the " paul a Detective #27 agency ", when we screw the poodle (le chien) and end up with a little omelette (fromage, s'il vous plait) on our face, we will come clean.
" The time will come, " the walrus said,
To talk of many things:
Of shoes__and clocks__and comic books__
Of CGC__ and kings__
And why the ether is burning hot__
On Icarus' wings."
Well, not quite yet, but, we do have some corrections, clarifications, and new evidence brought to light.



http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd300/dannybuddy/cf92907.jpg



Hey T. we need to do this CTR thing. You can get it, and the instructions by googling "Fincen Form 104". Sorry, it just slipped my mind when we did the deal. This honesty thing I've been doing this year is new to me; I've only fallen off the wagon once. We need to have our stories straight or one of us is going to be in trouble with Uncle Sam. Since you are the consumate 21 years in business/pro/expert with 5 stores and these instructions make this loud mouth schnook's head spin, can you help me out? Where the hell do I list the $150,000 in cash?







http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd300/dannybuddy/form104.jpg

[The Charlton Guy]

#popcorn#

[The Charlton Guy]

Well, the media is slowly but surely latching on to Mr. Eide's claims, so while we're waiting for the next report, let's check out some recent and not so recent news:

http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/tab3.cfm?newsid=18904487&BRD=2280&PAG=461&dept_id=621559&rfi=6

[The Charlton Guy]

More:

http://www.tinmanic.com/archives/2007/10/11/detective-27/

Worth quoting:

Rare Batman Comic Is Discovered
“It started with a phone call,” said Todd McDevitt, 38, the owner of New Dimension Comics, a chain of five stores in Pennsylvania. He is now also the owner of a copy of Detective Comics No. 27, which in 1939 featured the first appearance of Batman. The seller, who Mr. McDevitt said asked to remain anonymous, discovered the comic while cleaning out an attic. “A lot of times I get these calls, and it’s a reprint of some kind,” Mr. McDevitt said. “I was pretty sure this was the real deal.” A near-mint copy of the comic is valued at $485,000; Mr. McDevitt’s copy is in fine to very fine condition, but he would not disclose the amount he paid, saying only, “I kept a little bit of my soul.” The opportunity to buy the comic was “the kind of deal that people say is once in a lifetime,” he said. “Truly, it’s my third.” Mr. McDevitt previously acquired several 1960s Marvel comics and a copy of All-American Comics No. 16, with the first appearance, in 1940, of the Golden Age Green Lantern.

[The Charlton Guy]

Early "breaking" news (original web page):

http://miramichileader.canadaeast.com/search/article/107650

Worth quoting:

Published Wednesday October 24th, 2007
Appeared on page B3

Rare Detective Comics No. 27 may not be as valuable as first thought

Welcome to Geek World, where we know capes never go out of style and we encourage everyone to wear their underwear on the outside. We're back this week with some geeky news goodness for everyone to feed on. So grab a fork and dig in.

'Tec No. 27 trimmed?
Earlier this month a strange little news story started to circulate. It was one of those feel good tales of a guy who found a copy of Detective Comics No. 27, originally released in 1939, in an attic. This, for those who don't know, was the first appearance of Batman and is considered second most valuable comic on the market next to Action Comics No. 1, the first appearance of Superman.
The comic was sold to Todd McDevitt in Elmwood, PA, owner of a chain of New Dimension Comic stores, who was all too happy to speak to the press about the comic which was described as near mint and worth anywhere from $250,000 to $500,000, although McDevitt wouldn't say what he paid for the comic.
There are only about 20 copies of this comic known to still exist. No copies are considered mint and only one is considered near mint. This particular copy was considered near mint and described as having little noticeable wear.
It was a great little story to which all comic fans can relate. There are few of us who don't go to yard sales and flea markets hoping to stumble upon some rare mint or near mint comic for a song or hope to stumble upon some lost gem in an older relatives junk.
Now, however, it appears things aren't quite what they seem.
You see, McDevitt isn't the first potential buyer visited by the unnamed finder of the comic. According to the fine folks at Eide's Entertainment in Pittsburgh, this person came to them first with a stack of old comics and they noticed something a little odd. It seems the comics, most from the same era, were different sizes. Of the 70 books they were shown, the store owners believe half were trimmed.
See, trimming is when the edges of a comic are, well, trimmed to make them look in better shape and therefore increase the value. In fact, the collection apparently contained More Fun Comics No. 52, the first appearance of the Spectre, which is quite valuable in itself. In fact, at an auction last year a near mint copy sold for just shy of a $120,000. According to the folks at the store, that comic was trimmed a good quarter inch on all opens sides.
McDevitt, however, is convinced the comic is untouched and is refusing to have it independently appraised and graded.

[The Charlton Guy]

And probably worth saving the original Newsrama article before it disappears:

PA RETAILER FINDS DETECTIVE COMICS #27
http://www.newsarama.com/virgincomics/detectivefront_t.jpg (http://www.newsarama.com/virgincomics/detectivefront.jpg)It’s the classic story that any comic book fan or shop owner wants to be a part of someday: A person, cleaning out some old stuff in a house finds a comic book. Well, not just any comic book, but a copy of one of the handful of the comic books.

In this case, it was 1939’s Detective Comics #27, featuring the first appearance of Batman. The copy is in good shape, with very minor edge wear, a light dust shadow, and a “Siamese centerfold” - meaning extra paper made it through the press during the printing process. The store/retailer whose hands it ended up in – Todd McDevitt of New Dimension Comics, a Western Pennsylvania chain with five locations around the Pittsburgh area.

“They found it and suspected it had some value, so they took it to another local comic shop where they felt like they were not being treated fairly,” McDevitt said. “Then they called me. They were skeptical at first, but once I spent some time with them and the book they agreed with my appraisal of the book and we made a deal for there.”

In appraising the book, McDevitt graded the issue at Fine to Very Fine. But even that slight distinction between grades has meaning – according to Overstreet Price Guide, there’s a $110,000 price difference between copies in those two conditions. “The real kicker is that it's nice copy, newly discovered and not obviously restored,” McDevitt said. “Most of the copies out there are worked on and many buyers shy away from that. The right guy who has been waiting for just this kind of copy will be thrilled.”

While most retailers would classify this as a “once in a lifetime” event, for McDevitt it’s actually his 3rd in a lifetime event. “Years ago, I made a sweet little old lady very happy when she flopped some old books on my counter and asked ‘are these worth anything to you?’ There was an ultra rare All-American Comics #16 in there and other great Golden Age books. She was shopping for a new car the next day.”

In this instance though, the seller was fairly savvy – as McDevitt said, they’d already tried another comic shop and knew what they were dealing with. There just aren't many "little old ladies" any more, apparently. “They came in armed with a price guide. Even with the little old lady story, I'll never try to steal a deal. My reputation is too important. In fact, they were so happy dealing with me that they are writing a letter to recommend me to another big collection in the wings where they are not sure who to trust.”

McDevitt declined to say how much he paid for the book (“slightly less than my soul”), but confessed that, after 21 years in business, he was ready and waiting for such an opportunity. “I made sure that if this situation ever came up that I would not let it get past me,” McDevitt said. “I paid what I would have paid for any other book like it. It's just that the decimal point moved over a bit…”

So – what about the other half of the “classic story?” What’s McDevitt going to do with the book now that he’s got it?

“I had a chance to sell it four days after I bought it, but I turned it down partially so I could savor it for a while,” the retailer said. “I'm a businessman, but a part of me wants to keep it. But it's for sale right now.”

McDevitt added that despite the possible increase in his selling price in which the process could result, he’s not going to have it graded and slabbed by CGC right away, due to a few concerns. “The extra paper will make that tricky in the case. I suspect they could put it in a magazine holder. I would hate to fold it back in, even though the paper quality would allow it without concern. Besides, I want to read it. I think this Batman guy might catch on!”

But, ultimately, McDevitt will sell it. How does a retailer find a buy for a book like this? As surprising as it may be to some, there are buyers looking for these types of book who literally have the money standing by – although there’s an element of matchmaking involved with the business transaction.

“Word about a find like this gets out very quickly,” McDevitt said. “As I mentioned, I made one phone call and had a buyer the next day, but decided to hold onto it for now. Every dealer has the ‘I know a guy who wants that book’ story. The early enthusiasm for it makes me more confident that I made the right decision, and I suspect after the word spreads that ‘right guy’ will surface. It took a while for me to sell the All-American #16, but once I found the customer who it made a fit with, it sold right away to him.”

And in the end, while the transaction will ultimately put some money into the business, the story of the find is also currency of a sort. “When I'm trading stories with other retailers at the bar at a convention, I don't hear too many like this,” McDevitt said. “Now I’ve got one. But all in all, to say how often a thing like this happens, it’s tough to gauge. Some say that Pennsylvania is a hot bed for these types of finds. I'm always asked what I picked up lately at shows, just because they expect it from here. So now, I guess that I’m looking for my 4th once-in-a-lifetime find.”

[Eide]

Strange days have found us on the CGC boards: Goonchild, ShoNuff and
Eide - BANNED, Red Hook - STRIKED, TEC'27 found in attic - discussion
locked, and all Danny related activity dormant! Usually subversive
posters are invisible or treading very lightly for fear that the nazi
brain police may descend on them for the slightest infraction. Nothing
to see there but sunshine lollipops, rainbows and puppies playing with
kittens, All is right with the world! I was banned as "joined soley to
push an agenda and then goes on to name call and insult others." Amazing
mind reading skills on the part of DENA. Didn't she read ,in my
mind, that I expected to use the forums to start selling books as well?
Name call and insult? I made 16 posts. I non-specifically refered to
some "idiot" poster (which was "spooned") and I said non-specifically
"clean him out of the gene pool," for the idiotic comment that DD never
dealt in GA. I referred to another person as a "silly man." I stated,
I thought another poster to be a "douche" but... I changed my mind.
I stated I would "flip off" two people at an appropriate time. How does
that, compare to "I would not pizz up your azz if your guts were on fire."
Sorry Hoss. That sounds a whole lot worse than "silly man" to me.
Was that person banned?

Dissatisfaction with the new Overstreet and certain bumped threads
seem oddly out of place: "Geppi Museum" and "Which will crash first,
the housing market or the comic market." If you look close, you will
see the specs of gold.






http://www.eides.com/003.jpg






"Rings, Shills, and other illegal games
Rings are buyers that control auctions, make non-compete deals. This is
done in order to get yours and others items cheap so they can have
another auction amongst themselves and split the difference between
what they paid for the auction and the real price. Shills are used when
an auction house has a bid of lets say $4,000 for an item on the book
or called in, and on the floor the item is $2,000, the shill is used to raise
to the book so the item does not sell for $2,200, but $4,000 to the
unfortunate trusting buyer. Although this might seem helpful to sellers,
they usually only do it for their own items because they do want some
bargains to go through to please buyers. It is just another unethical
thing that goes on and both are well documented with many lawsuits
and criminal records."

Communication skills are poor, but their hearts and minds are in the right place.

(Click on image below to enlarge)

http://www.eides.com/001.jpg




(Click on image below to enlarge)


http://www.eides.com/002.jpg




Daniel Plainview and H.W.?

I will be back with a straight forward post in a couple of days. Thanks
for reading. Thanks to the host. Thanks to the mod. Thanks for the forum.
Thanks for your patience.

[The Charlton Guy]

Thank you Greg.

I (we) very much look forward to hearing the details as you see them and the answers to the many outstanding questions regarding this transaction. I also look forward to your views on the ongoing masacre of our treasured beauties, because, believe me, I very much share your concern.

I have said time and time again that we have reached the point where damn near ALL high grade GA and SA books are now highly likely to have been monkeyed with.

And let me say, I have calmed down considerably since your re-emergence here and I have backed off of my position of having you banned. Please understand that I only felt strongly about that position becuse it entailed the same criteria that got Comic-Keys banned here as well. I felt you were playing me for a fool and I didn't like it. I still don't, but I feel strongly (very strongly) that your story and your viewpoint regarding this transaction really needs to be heard.

And I will do anything I can to make that possible here at The Corral.


Strange days have found us on the CGC boards: Goonchild, ShoNuff and
Eide - BANNED, Red Hook - STRIKED, TEC'27 found in attic - discussion
locked, and all Danny related activity dormant! Usually subversive
posters are invisible or treading very lightly for fear that the nazi
brain police may descend on them for the slightest infraction. Nothing
to see there but sunshine lollipops, rainbows and puppies playing with
kittens, All is right with the world!

It is quite pitiful. It really is. But don't feel lonely, I too have had threads locked or outright deleted the second I called the current practices of CGC into question. I too have no doubt that they are highly culpable in the hiding and outright lying and fraud regarding the acceptance of trimming and other restoration in blue label books. It is more than a slap in the face to the comic collecting and selling community, it is an outright fraud and a crime in my book.

And I will continue to call these issues into attention both here and at the CGC Boards.

And I will be more than happy to help you in whatever way possible to state your case, present the facts, and help shine a light on this ongoing black plague on the hobby, once you do present your facts and answer the questions that I have raised and others have voiced.

In case you hadn't noticed, I feel very strongly about this issue and will go to the mat for you.

If you are for real.

And if you can answer the questions asked on this thread and elsewhere.



I will be back with a straight forward post in a couple of days. Thanks
for reading. Thanks to the host. Thanks to the mod. Thanks for the forum.
Thanks for your patience.

Again; I thank you. And I very much look forward to it.

[Capitalrecoveryman]

You know, over the years, I've managed to put together a decent string of SA funny books in F - F/VF fairly cheaply. More and more, I've become convinced that this stuff will best hold/increase its value if for no other reason than the assurance that it hasn't been tampered with.

[Eide]

With a mind to the fragility of life and the impermanence of all things, allow me to digress from my planned post. My evening with Danny will resume at a future date.

Questions! Questions! Questions!
A surfeit of questions and a dearth of answers .

1. Many questions can be answered by the parties involved. Problem is, even a single simple truthful answer by any one of the involved parties, will create a black hole that will not only suck in all of the conspirators, from DD to the top, but will forever change the face of our hobby. Well, maybe not forever, but for however long it takes for people to forget the recent past: a period of time that grows frighteningly shorter day by day.

The involved parties have chosen the conspiracy of silence and the repression of free speech as their best weapons against the truth. Their attacks on me will continue to be illogical and impotent and ultimately they will fall back on the excuse that, they did what they did for the "good of the hobby." Such a wonderful Hitlerian big lie that there will be many who will buy it. CGC employees, Hi Dena and Architect, are practicing their goose step as we speak. Hey guys, you banned me for merely affirming what Near Mint Jeff figured out. Check the record. Why not ban Near Mint?

Welcome to the new world order: MONEY is everything. The distant runner up to money is your drugs, alcohol and addictions: the things you use as a band aide to assuage the pain and guilt you feel for the loss of your humanity. In the case of fanboys, the addiction is comics.

2. My investigation has led me to a variety of people. Many of those people have given me information with the expectation that their names will not be given. I did not ask or even expect the two people who came forward on the CGC boards to speak up for me. I thank them for that. I am the sole front man and I will not openly or publicly disclose those who have assisted but want to remain anonymous.

3. Protection is the keyword of these three points. 1. Protection of the lie. 2. Protection of the sources. 3. My self protection. There are those who have cringed and run from what I am doing. "Why would you do this? What do you have to gain? You are not out any money! Leave well enough alone! You can not go up against these people! Nobody really cares! Do you know how many people you are going to hurt? It's Chinatown!" There are cards in my hand that I hold close to my chest. It is possible that they may never be revealed. I expect that I will soon be hearing from lawyers hell bent on my destruction. Having survived about 40 years in the business world, I have been there/done that more than a handful of times and been bloodied but never bowed. Discovery and depositions cut both ways. I prefer to be the defendant rather than the plaintiff and once you open that door, all hell will break loose on the federal level and the conspirators can not afford that investigation.

With that caveat on questions that will be answered, let me get back to digging my own grave.

Todd, met and dealt with Matt (Danny Dupcak) between 9/29/07 and 10/06/07.

Between 9/29/07 and 10/06/07 Todd visited David J. Anderson with all 71 books. Todd's deal with Matt was $150,000 for the Tec #27 and $100,000 for the other 70.

David assumed the Tec to be trim free because of the siamese page. Dave has had some past problems with disclosing known resto to a buyer.

Dave offered Todd $125,000 for the Tec #27 which Todd turned down.

Dave purchased the other 70 books from Todd for $100,000 plus a $2,000 finder fee.

Dave and Steve Geppi work hand in hand.

On 10/7/07 the Tec #27 was in Todd's possession and a respected dealer replied "Looks a little small to me."

When Todd announced his acquisition of the Tec #27 on 10/09/07, the other 70 Dupcak books were now owned by Geppi and were in his safe in Baltimore.

Todd, may or may not have known that the seller was Dupcak prior to 10/13.

On 10/13 Todd was informed that the seller was Danny (ComicKeys) Dupcak and did not ask any questions of the informant.

Steve Geppi was informed on 11/14/07 that the books came from Dupcak.

By 11/14/07 the 70 books were en route to Heritage/Halperin.

Heritage received the books and sent them to Matt Nelson to do his thing on them and to check for resto.

Matt sent them on to CGC/Steve Borock.

Ten of the 70 books appeared in blue labels in the February Heritage auction and two appeared in the March auction.

Per the list(s) I have provided, those books ranged from severely trimmed to partially trimmed to possible ringers. They were all blue labeled. There are 58 of the 71 books to still be accounted for.

Todd claims he is still in touch with the seller and from other evidence in my possession, I believe this to be true. Careful Todd, someone close to you is telling tales. Is it John T.? Josh? Maybe it's the higher ups. You are low man on the totem pole. Who do you think is going to take the fall when this whole thing finally blows up? You are not powerless to save yourself. Though your restored Tec #27 might only be worth $50,000, its' invaluable to your future. Care to comment on "Don't believe everything you read in the news. They have missed a lot of facts."

One way or the other, the truth is going to come out. Don't fear the higher ups alone. Remember, this is Danny Dupcak's revenge and there is no telling if and when, he might blow the whistle.

Now if you will excuse me, I need to send Steve my $75 to become a museum retailer affiliate member.

Greg Eide , Eide's Entertainment , 1121 Penn Ave , Pittsburgh , PA. 15222

[The Charlton Guy]

With a mind to the fragility of life and the impermanence of all things, allow me to digress from my planned post. My evening with Danny will resume at a future date.

Questions! Questions! Questions!
A surfeit of questions and a dearth of answers .

1. Many questions can be answered by the parties involved. Problem is, even a single simple truthful answer by any one of the involved parties, will create a black hole that will not only suck in all of the conspirators, from DD to the top, but will forever change the face of our hobby. Well, maybe not forever, but for however long it takes for people to forget the recent past: a period of time that grows frighteningly shorter day by day.

The involved parties have chosen the conspiracy of silence and the repression of free speech as their best weapons against the truth. Their attacks on me will continue to be illogical and impotent and ultimately they will fall back on the excuse that, they did what they did for the "good of the hobby." Such a wonderful Hitlerian big lie that there will be many who will buy it. CGC employees, Hi Dena and Architect, are practicing their goose step as we speak. Hey guys, you banned me for merely affirming what Near Mint Jeff figured out. Check the record. Why not ban Near Mint?

Welcome to the new world order: MONEY is everything. The distant runner up to money is your drugs, alcohol and addictions: the things you use as a band aide to assuage the pain and guilt you feel for the loss of your humanity. In the case of fanboys, the addiction is comics.

2. My investigation has led me to a variety of people. Many of those people have given me information with the expectation that their names will not be given. I did not ask or even expect the two people who came forward on the CGC boards to speak up for me. I thank them for that. I am the sole front man and I will not openly or publicly disclose those who have assisted but want to remain anonymous.

3. Protection is the keyword of these three points. 1. Protection of the lie. 2. Protection of the sources. 3. My self protection. There are those who have cringed and run from what I am doing. "Why would you do this? What do you have to gain? You are not out any money! Leave well enough alone! You can not go up against these people! Nobody really cares! Do you know how many people you are going to hurt? It's Chinatown!" There are cards in my hand that I hold close to my chest. It is possible that they may never be revealed. I expect that I will soon be hearing from lawyers hell bent on my destruction. Having survived about 40 years in the business world, I have been there/done that more than a handful of times and been bloodied but never bowed. Discovery and depositions cut both ways. I prefer to be the defendant rather than the plaintiff and once you open that door, all hell will break loose on the federal level and the conspirators can not afford that investigation.

With that caveat on questions that will be answered, let me get back to digging my own grave.

Todd, met and dealt with Matt (Danny Dupcak) between 9/29/07 and 10/06/07.

Between 9/29/07 and 10/06/07 Todd visited David J. Anderson with all 71 books. Todd's deal with Matt was $150,000 for the Tec #27 and $100,000 for the other 70.

David assumed the Tec to be trim free because of the siamese page. Dave has had some past problems with disclosing known resto to a buyer.

Dave offered Todd $125,000 for the Tec #27 which Todd turned down.

Dave purchased the other 70 books from Todd for $100,000 plus a $2,000 finder fee.

Dave and Steve Geppi work hand in hand.

On 10/7/07 the Tec #27 was in Todd's possession and a respected dealer replied "Looks a little small to me."

When Todd announced his acquisition of the Tec #27 on 10/09/07, the other 70 Dupcak books were now owned by Geppi and were in his safe in Baltimore.

Todd, may or may not have known that the seller was Dupcak prior to 10/13.

On 10/13 Todd was informed that the seller was Danny (ComicKeys) Dupcak and did not ask any questions of the informant.

Steve Geppi was informed on 11/14/07 that the books came from Dupcak.

By 11/14/07 the 70 books were en route to Heritage/Halperin.

Heritage received the books and sent them to Matt Nelson to do his thing on them and to check for resto.

Matt sent them on to CGC/Steve Borock.

Ten of the 70 books appeared in blue labels in the February Heritage auction and two appeared in the March auction.

Per the list(s) I have provided, those books ranged from severely trimmed to partially trimmed to possible ringers. They were all blue labeled. There are 58 of the 71 books to still be accounted for.

Todd claims he is still in touch with the seller and from other evidence in my possession, I believe this to be true. Careful Todd, someone close to you is telling tales. Is it John T.? Josh? Maybe it's the higher ups. You are low man on the totem pole. Who do you think is going to take the fall when this whole thing finally blows up? You are not powerless to save yourself. Though your restored Tec #27 might only be worth $50,000, its' invaluable to your future. Care to comment on "Don't believe everything you read in the news. They have missed a lot of facts."

One way or the other, the truth is going to come out. Don't fear the higher ups alone. Remember, this is Danny Dupcak's revenge and there is no telling if and when, he might blow the whistle.

Now if you will excuse me, I need to send Steve my $75 to become a museum retailer affiliate member.

Greg Eide , Eide's Entertainment , 1121 Penn Ave , Pittsburgh , PA. 15222

Thank you Greg.

[stupidman]

Strange days have found us on the CGC boards: Goonchild, ShoNuff and
Eide - BANNED, Red Hook - STRIKED


It is quite pitiful. It really is. But don't feel lonely, I too have had threads locked or outright deleted the second I called the current practices of CGC into question. I too have no doubt that they are highly culpable in the hiding and outright lying and fraud regarding the acceptance of trimming and other restoration in blue label books. It is more than a slap in the face to the comic collecting and selling community, it is an outright fraud and a crime in my book.


Not too strange actually, and not too related to the important stuff, really. Goonchild and his several other names was a dick the day he came on the CGC Board. He even admitted he used scissors to trim an edge of an EC (a capital offense in my book :-). Deserved it.

Sho-Nuff? The biggest shill on the Board, including me. Bugaboo, BlackHearted Dwarf, etc. Just there to cause trouble, not even comic-related. Deserved it.

Eide - newcomer pushing an agenda, like Gemma said. Mighta deserved it, but in the interest of a good story, I woulda let him hang around longer.

Redhook - one of the best posters ever on the CGC Board. Mighta deserved a strike for this, but previous strikes were bullshit. Like CG said, he got strikes for opposing CGC and showing that the emperor has no clothes. Didn't deserve it.

Testinadical - kind of a shill, even though everyone knew it was me. Technically deserved it, but had been registered for a year. My last ID made it a year too - spring cleaning I guess.

Very easy to re-register a new ID. Try it out Eide, it's fun!

And if you see Calamerica, tell him he's a cacksucker. That's pretty obvious, though.

STU the KING of FOAD

[JohnT]

1. Back cover is too white considering multiple stains and two large dust shadows on front cover. This book was mistreated. A book that was mistreated like this, left out to collect dust shadows and stains, will most likely bear more evidence of damage on the edges than this book does.

2. "BOB KANE" signature has no "KANE", which as stated prior on CGC should translate to a bigger yellow border at top above the circle.

3. Top staple is a replacement and it is not a vintage replacement. Indicative of further tampering, Danny pointed this out.

4. Check mark in "C" is erased.

5. Why is the remaining (after recent tearing) siamese paper so dark when compared to the small amount of interior pages showing at the front bottom right hand corner? See detail.

6. Why is the front bottom cut so straight, except for a small bump at the right corner, while the back cover is cut so unstraight?

7. From in hand inspection, all of the dust shadows and stains have been glossed over. The entire texture of the cover feels the same everywhere. There is no feel of damage from stains or shadows.

8. Siamese fold is on the centerfold. Back half of opening edge is not trimmed. Front half of opening edge is trimmed.

9. No interior page visibility except small amount bottom right corner front cover.

10. Unrestored DC books of this era, feature mostly underhang covers. Meaning that, on at least one of the three edges, interior pages extend past the cover and are visible. Over hang covers frequently occur where any one or more of the 3 cover edges extend past the interior pages. I have never seen an unrestored DC book of this era that has 3 edges with DEAD ON cuts. A dead on cut, which CGC graders note as being the #1 indicator of a trimmed book is a cut where the cover and pages were trimmed at the same time and all are trimmed on the exact same cut/flat plane. The top, cover and pages, are cut dead on. The right front cover and the front half of interior pages are cut dead on. Bottom cover and pages are cut, close to dead on, except for a small bump, at right corner. See detail.

11. Visible color touch that breaks the front cover definition line on "blue hat" and red color across from "D" in "DETECTIVE". That color touch line seems to go toward the bottom of the "D" and then turns a130° angle up.

12. Cover definition line at middle of banner fades away, then comes back too strong.

13. In hand, signs of cleaning and pressing.

14. Something is odd with the "S’s" in "STARTING THIS ISSUE."

15. Why was "The Detective #27 Attic Find" story never given any publicity by CBG magazine or Wizard magazine? Publicity was only on mass media. The two most respected fan news sources had nothing to say? Todd's last mention of the book occurred on 10/13/07 (the book was announced on 10/09/07,) when he responded to Foolkiller’s post #1958400 - 10/13/07 06:41 PM on the CGC message board thread "Re: DETECTIVE COMICS #27 found in attic" page 46: #1958660 - 10/13/07 10:23 PM Re: DETECTIVE COMICS #27found in attic [Re: Foolkiller]

Foolkiller - As for two other books being shown... you know what they say Todd, loose lips sink ships.

Todd McDevitt - You know what else they say...? Don't believe everything you read in the news. They have missed a lot of facts.

Todd has not spoken since and the book, though said to be a "blue label" 6.5 has not been shown on any website or board. Why? What has the news media missed? Why did Todd deny buying the other 70 books? Could it be a case of trying to hide the source of books? It is common knowledge now that David T. Anderson was middleman to Steve Geppi's purchase of the 70 comics (71 minus Detective #27 equals 70) from Todd for $1000,000 (the amount paid to Danny) and a $2,000 finders fee.

16. The 71 books came from Danny Dupcak. Todd was informed that Danny Dupcak was the seller on 10/13/07. Todd had no questions for and failed to call the informer back. PROVENANCE, PROVENANCE, PROVENANCE.

Opening arguments for the prosecution are concluded. What says the defence?

Mr. Eide, my first reaction is: it's about time you gave substantive answers. From the start you made a very serious charge, but failed to back it up. I'm glad to see you coming forward with information. Keep it up!

On the observations about the Tec 27, these are very interesting. I know next to nothing about these technical observations, but they show you really took a good look at the book and made careful observations. I assume that others have taken a good look at it too--including, apparently, CGC--and the "defense" that would need to answer your concerns about the book would have to come from them. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem likely. We've heard of a number of people stating that they think the book is clean. I personally don't buy this giant conspiracy theory that everybody is covering up...so I'd really like to know how they would answer the questions you have about the book.

Here's a question that really, really, really needs an answer if you're version of events is to be believed. How did you know that this Matt guy was Danny? This really is key. If you can explain how you knew it was him, then your contention that some of the books were trimmed becomes pretty plausible. If you can't prove it was him...we're all left to wonder whether you're giving an accurate account.

[The Charlton Guy]

Hello JohnT. and welcome to The Corral!

And thanks for chiming in here, particularly where the identity of "Matt" is concerned.

I agree with you. Identifying "Matt" is key to this issue.

[Hoss]

Welcome to the Corral, JohnT!

[JohnT]

Hello JohnT. and welcome to The Corral!

And thanks for chiming in here, particularly where the identity of "Matt" is concerned.

I agree with you. Identifying "Matt" is key to this issue.

Glad to find this site, and to see that there is a place where conversations can go on without interruption!

You know, the more I learn about upper end collecting, the happier I feel about collecting mid-grade silver and bronze. Still, I occasionally purchase a high priced book, and it's really critical to know what to look out for. I've learned a lot about trimming and other resto, and that helps, but what I really want to know is if these conspiracy theories hold any truth at all. It seems far-fetched to suggest that CGC is conspiring to hide slightly altered books behind blue labels, for their own profit and the profit of their high end clients. Far-fetched, but not impossible.

I'd really like to see someone knowledgeable come on here and address Eide's specific comments about the 27. He's got a number of plausible reasons why he suspects the book has been tampered with, but I don't know enough to judge myself.

Many of us over at CGC have been suspicious of his motives, especially given his cryptic comments in various posts. I suppose fear of a lawsuit could be part of that, but if you're going to make a claim that casts doubts on someone else investment, I think you need to back it up with facts. It now appears like he's going in that direction, which is good, but the way this has unfolded leaves so many questions it's really tough to know what is true.

It does seem safe to conclude that the basic timeline is accurate, as well as the number of books and where they ended up. But there are big questions out there:

--Was it Danny?
--Why didn't Eide warn Todd, if he knew it was Danny shopping books in the area?
--Did the Tec 27 really get the blue label, as so many have said.
--What are the counter claims to Eide's contention that certain books were trimmed, if in fact some of them now reside in blue labels? (The integrity of CGC may well rest on the answer to this one.)

And the biggest question of all: have certain people who tamper with books gotten so good that they can consistently fool graders and collectors?

[bugsy]

Didnt someone say that the identity of 'Matt' was caught on shop security camera's.

[Eide]

The photoshopped blonde image previously presented on the Corral is Matt/Danny Dupcak as he appeared on 9/29/07 between 1pm-4pm at my store. When I , my manager and two other employees present on that day and those hours were presented with that photo, their UNCOERCED response was ,"THAT'S HIM" .
Note that Ace joked/gloated about his "shape shifting" abilities.
Being that you are obviously close to todd , does todd deny that Matt looks exactly like that photo ?
How about a polygraph test? Not terribly expensive and i will foot the bill if todd is in a cash crunch like dave and steve. You talk to todd and arrange a date. I'm available any day , any time. Ask todd to bring along the invisible tec #27. How about the serial# and notes?
Many questions raised here will be answered WHEN I HAVE THE TIME to continue with the presentation of my evening with Danny. BTW, who are you and what is your relation to todd? I suspect that you might not even be JohnT. Maybe you are the guy who was pretending to be Danny at the MLJ board. Not cool . Though I joke , this thing is no joking matter and any deception only serves to dilute the credible disscussion of the matters at hand.
I have many other things to attend to in my life and I will not be posting anything for at least a week.
"Defence" is correct ,cg, and it was intentional. Old,English, archaic but it survives to this day in many legal books, documents and circles.

[Capitalrecoveryman]

Am I the only one who feels like I am watching a David Lynch movie every time I wander into one of these threads?

[The Charlton Guy]

I suspect that you might not even be JohnT. Maybe you are the guy who was pretending to be Danny at the MLJ board. Not cool ...

That was Comic-Keys posting at MLJ. Of that I have no doubt.

It sounds to me like JohnT is just another person who is interested in finding out whether your allegations are true.


The photoshopped blonde image previously presented on the Corral is Matt/Danny Dupcak as he appeared on 9/29/07 between 1pm-4pm at my store...

Going back to one of my earlier as-yet unanswered questions, do you know who made that photoshop image that was posted here by Paul A.?



"Defence" is correct ,cg, and it was intentional. Old,English, archaic but it survives to this day in many legal books, documents and circles.

Point taken.

[JohnT]

The photoshopped blonde image previously presented on the Corral is Matt/Danny Dupcak as he appeared on 9/29/07 between 1pm-4pm at my store. When I , my manager and two other employees present on that day and those hours were presented with that photo, their UNCOERCED response was ,"THAT'S HIM" .
Note that Ace joked/gloated about his "shape shifting" abilities.
Being that you are obviously close to todd , does todd deny that Matt looks exactly like that photo ?
How about a polygraph test? Not terribly expensive and i will foot the bill if todd is in a cash crunch like dave and steve. You talk to todd and arrange a date. I'm available any day , any time. Ask todd to bring along the invisible tec #27. How about the serial# and notes?
Many questions raised here will be answered WHEN I HAVE THE TIME to continue with the presentation of my evening with Danny. BTW, who are you and what is your relation to todd? I suspect that you might not even be JohnT. Maybe you are the guy who was pretending to be Danny at the MLJ board. Not cool . Though I joke , this thing is no joking matter and any deception only serves to dilute the credible disscussion of the matters at hand.
I have many other things to attend to in my life and I will not be posting anything for at least a week.
"Defence" is correct ,cg, and it was intentional. Old,English, archaic but it survives to this day in many legal books, documents and circles.

Do you have images from your security cameras? That would seal the deal, I would say. Otherwise we are taking your word that it was him.

I don't know Todd. As Charlton Guy says, I'm just another collector that would like to know the truth. I'm open to believing your claims, but of course I need hard facts to be convinced.

[marvelguy]

Hey JohnT, welcome to the Corral!

Say, aren't you the one that sold me the Captain Marvel #1 a few weeks ago?

[JohnT]

Hey JohnT, welcome to the Corral!

Say, aren't you the one that sold me the Captain Marvel #1 a few weeks ago?

Yeah, that was me! Small world when you collect comics!

[skiw]

Glad to find this site, and to see that there is a place where conversations can go on without interruption!

You know, the more I learn about upper end collecting, the happier I feel about collecting mid-grade silver and bronze. Still, I occasionally purchase a high priced book, and it's really critical to know what to look out for. I've learned a lot about trimming and other resto, and that helps, but what I really want to know is if these conspiracy theories hold any truth at all. It seems far-fetched to suggest that CGC is conspiring to hide slightly altered books behind blue labels, for their own profit and the profit of their high end clients. Far-fetched, but not impossible.

I don't find this far-fetched at all. Look at the whole Ewert scandal and CGC's ties to Heritage. Call me a cynic, but how can fellow CGC board members out him by comparing scans of obviously trimmed books yet CGC "is not able to detect it"? Some of them were so obvious that I can't see how they were missed. This has been the main thing that bothered me about the whole deal - he was able to do it for how long and CGC did not bat an eye until other collectors called them on it. I would not be surprised if a number of the Ewert books they "rechecked" and came back with a clean bill of health are actually trimmed.

Besides, I still can't believe that the Church books with tiny amounts of CT get a pass while other books do not. How hard will that be to notice when the felt pen ink begins to change color?

I still use CGC to grade my books and will continue to do so, but I am very leery about buying any HG early SA or GA books in a blue slab as a result of this.

[JohnT]

I don't find this far-fetched at all. Look at the whole Ewert scandal and CGC's ties to Heritage. Call me a cynic, but how can fellow CGC board members out him by comparing scans of obviously trimmed books yet CGC "is not able to detect it"? Some of them were so obvious that I can't see how they were missed. This has been the main thing that bothered me about the whole deal - he was able to do it for how long and CGC did not bat an eye until other collectors called them on it. I would not be surprised if a number of the Ewert books they "rechecked" and came back with a clean bill of health are actually trimmed.

Besides, I still can't believe that the Church books with tiny amounts of CT get a pass while other books do not. How hard will that be to notice when the felt pen ink begins to change color?

I still use CGC to grade my books and will continue to do so, but I am very leery about buying any HG early SA or GA books in a blue slab as a result of this.

The Ewert scandal was before my time on these internet chat boards, so I'm not familiar with all the gritty details. Until late 2006 I was a quiet collector (been collecting on and off since I was a kid in the 70's...) who occasionally went to shows and bought comics at local stores, but basically had little interaction with the collecting community at large. Then I got into buying on Ebay and discovered the CGC boards, and have been catching up on the complex comic hobby world ever since. It's been interesting. I've seen a lot of good and some bad too. Not unexpected, of course.

One of these days I need to go back and research the Ewert scandal in detail...

[skiw]

Hi JohnT,

Yeah, this hobby has its up and its downs, but it sure is fun!

I am not a BSD in the comic community (although I aspire to be) and do not know the full story behind the Ewert scam either. While I am still a firm believer in the need for an agency like CGC to standardize grading and legitimize comics as an investment (whether they deserve to be or not), some of the questions raised by some during the Ewert scandal and the fact that "pedigree books" with CT do not get nailed like other books left a bad tase in my mouth. I do not mean to sound like a skeptic, but when big $$$ are involved in anything greed tends to overrule reason more often than not.

[Hoss]

Hi skiw! Welcome to the Comics Corral!

[The Charlton Guy]

The Ewert scandal was before my time on these internet chat boards, so I'm not familiar with all the gritty details...

One of the great ironies of the Ewert fiasco was that it was Comic-Keys who brought the whole scenario to light.

[Eide]

What are you people doing? We can not have intelligent, thought provoking and reasoned conversatiions on relevant subjects on a chat board! It's a "chat" board damn you! Chi chat, agendas, vendettas, how's the weather, did you see last night"s Smallville, Eide does not know the difference between afternoon and evening, Batman prices are going to go thru the roof when they release the ADAM West show on dvd, BS, accusations, lies, my dad can beat your dad, you collect stupid stuff, i don't like things that remind me that i am stup...willfully ignorant, don't make me think cause it hurts my widdle head!

[oxbladder]

CGC is part of the whole project to fleece the comic community both at the highest levels and, by the "rules" they force change to, every one else. If they were set up like a true acreditation/assurance company with all the proper check and balances it would be worth supporting. It is not however and those who hold ownership of it will eventually back out leaving a broken hobby ... much like they did with sport cards and coins.

Other than buying new modern CGCed books you just don't know what you are getting. I say this because they have largely redefined just what constitutes restoration and people seem more than happy to go with the flow on this one because they have been convinced and continue to delude themselves that "conservation" does nothing to a book and that the majority agreed with them. Funny considering it takes a book from it's actual condition to some imagined previously existing standard ... with zero hard proof that the book WAS in this condition.

The funny thing is take the slab away place the customer in front of this book with the ability to look it over and they would NEVER agree that it is in the stated grade or is worth the stated price. No matter how much they like and trust the seller. If it not worth it out the slab why pay MORE for it in the slab. Indeed why should a buyer EVER absorb the cost of slabbing? Unless they ask for it to be slabbed why is it passed on to the customer?

IT is all a crazy game with pride, status and money at the roots and comic people are easy to buy off ... or so it seems to me.

/rant

[Eide]

Fake Stan Lee file copies.
Collections confused as OO pedigrees
Orphaned pedigrees
Church CTed books in blue labels
Close ties to Heritage/Halperin -shill bidding and check out the LA PROPS case. How much stock does Halperin own in CGC? 25%?
All American#16/David J. Anderson
Pressing/cleaning/disassembly is OK if Matt Nelson does it.
How do you NOT know who owns a book when they do a walk thru ?
How do you NOT know who owns a book when it has distinctive features and/or is a sole pedigree copy?
Comic registry cause knowledge=power=money.Who has what? Who needs what? Hell CGC already has a monumental data base just from submissions alone. Employees are not suppossed to deal directly/openly/ in quantity in CGC or raw books but what stops them from alerting a BTD that something just past thru that they should watch for.
Why do the employees keep saying "of course grading is SUBJECTIVE" when you complain about a grade. I thought the whole idea of CGC was to have an OBJECTIVE third party grading system. Aside from a lack of understanding of the basic concepts/defiitions of SUBJECTIVE and OBJECTIVE, how can you have a believable and OBJECTIVE system when the rules are constantly being changed subjectively to accomodate for the hidden primary goal of 'MO MONEY, 'MO MONEY.
Boy Comics#17
Sensation Comics#35 double cover
Nic Cage-screwed on the way in ,screwed on the way out
Danny can spot resto from a scan and thru a plastic slab better than SB can with book in hand
Be careful what you say on the CGC boards. The mods are on constant look out for anyone who might be seditious/make mention of any of these topics.
Gift grades to BTD's. Like an Action#7 that should objectively grade no more than a 6.0 but gets an 8.0 cause it belongs to steve Geppi/Dave J Anderson
Every book listed in MANUFACTURED GOLD which was not even half done before the CGC forumites derailed it and got it locked
The Ewert 1.000. Do you really think all of those books got thru without an inside man at CGC? Where did Ewert live?
AND LASTLY
TEC#27 / the DUPCAK 71

But of course e-bay is a much safer with CGC around.

CG, if you ain't banned yet, i probably just did it for you!
SB, get those lawyers to writing up cease and desist and i will see you in court. Tell them, anything i get goes straight to the FBI so make it nice and threatening.

JohnT go to Collector's Assemble and read EVERYTHING in the right hand column if you really are not a toadie for sour grape todd.

EDUCATE YOURSELF TODAY OR EXPECT TO GET SCREWED TOMORROW!

[The Charlton Guy]

What are you people doing? We can not have intelligent, thought provoking and reasoned conversatiions on relevant subjects on a chat board!

We can at The Corral. And you can too.



CG, if you ain't banned yet, i probably just did it for you!


There's nothing you said in your last post (and Oxbladder's last post) that I haven't said, or at least agreed with time and time again both on the CGC Board, on Feebay or elsewhere.

And CGC hasn't banned me yet.

I guess as long as I continue to provide some form of entertainment value, they will put up with me.

But I agree, eventually they probably will cut me off too. And I don't really care.

I'll still have The Corral and the NOD. And the occasional Feebay parody...:D

Meanwhile, we can all sit back on our deck chairs and watch Red Hook's iceberg emerge.

[JohnT]

Fake Stan Lee file copies.
Collections confused as OO pedigrees
Orphaned pedigrees
Church CTed books in blue labels
Close ties to Heritage/Halperin -shill bidding and check out the LA PROPS case. How much stock does Halperin own in CGC? 25%?
All American#16/David J. Anderson
Pressing/cleaning/disassembly is OK if Matt Nelson does it.
How do you NOT know who owns a book when they do a walk thru ?
How do you NOT know who owns a book when it has distinctive features and/or is a sole pedigree copy?
Comic registry cause knowledge=power=money.Who has what? Who needs what? Hell CGC already has a monumental data base just from submissions alone. Employees are not suppossed to deal directly/openly/ in quantity in CGC or raw books but what stops them from alerting a BTD that something just past thru that they should watch for.
Why do the employees keep saying "of course grading is SUBJECTIVE" when you complain about a grade. I thought the whole idea of CGC was to have an OBJECTIVE third party grading system. Aside from a lack of understanding of the basic concepts/defiitions of SUBJECTIVE and OBJECTIVE, how can you have a believable and OBJECTIVE system when the rules are constantly being changed subjectively to accomodate for the hidden primary goal of 'MO MONEY, 'MO MONEY.
Boy Comics#17
Sensation Comics#35 double cover
Nic Cage-screwed on the way in ,screwed on the way out
Danny can spot resto from a scan and thru a plastic slab better than SB can with book in hand
Be careful what you say on the CGC boards. The mods are on constant look out for anyone who might be seditious/make mention of any of these topics.
Gift grades to BTD's. Like an Action#7 that should objectively grade no more than a 6.0 but gets an 8.0 cause it belongs to steve Geppi/Dave J Anderson
Every book listed in MANUFACTURED GOLD which was not even half done before the CGC forumites derailed it and got it locked
The Ewert 1.000. Do you really think all of those books got thru without an inside man at CGC? Where did Ewert live?
AND LASTLY
TEC#27 / the DUPCAK 71

But of course e-bay is a much safer with CGC around.

CG, if you ain't banned yet, i probably just did it for you!
SB, get those lawyers to writing up cease and desist and i will see you in court. Tell them, anything i get goes straight to the FBI so make it nice and threatening.

JohnT go to Collector's Assemble and read EVERYTHING in the right hand column if you really are not a toadie for sour grape todd.

EDUCATE YOURSELF TODAY OR EXPECT TO GET SCREWED TOMORROW!

Why speak in riddles. Tell us what you really think.

What is "Collector's Assemble"? I'll see if I can find it.

Looking forward to hearing you finish off your "evening with Danny" story.

[skiw]

I am looking forward to more details as well. Eide, your last post opens up a lot of cans of worms and I hope that you are able to back everything up in case there is any legal action.

Even though I do not agree with all of their actions, I still believe the hobby needs an agency like CGC and any negative outcomes from this Tec #27 caper will have far reaching repercussions for the industry. What happens if you can no longer trust any slab? Talk about a swift market correction....................

[novice]

Fake Stan Lee file copies.
Collections confused as OO pedigrees
Orphaned pedigrees
Church CTed books in blue labels
Close ties to Heritage/Halperin -shill bidding and check out the LA PROPS case. How much stock does Halperin own in CGC? 25%?
All American#16/David J. Anderson
Pressing/cleaning/disassembly is OK if Matt Nelson does it.
How do you NOT know who owns a book when they do a walk thru ?
How do you NOT know who owns a book when it has distinctive features and/or is a sole pedigree copy?
Comic registry cause knowledge=power=money.Who has what? Who needs what? Hell CGC already has a monumental data base just from submissions alone. Employees are not suppossed to deal directly/openly/ in quantity in CGC or raw books but what stops them from alerting a BTD that something just past thru that they should watch for.
Why do the employees keep saying "of course grading is SUBJECTIVE" when you complain about a grade. I thought the whole idea of CGC was to have an OBJECTIVE third party grading system. Aside from a lack of understanding of the basic concepts/defiitions of SUBJECTIVE and OBJECTIVE, how can you have a believable and OBJECTIVE system when the rules are constantly being changed subjectively to accomodate for the hidden primary goal of 'MO MONEY, 'MO MONEY.
Boy Comics#17
Sensation Comics#35 double cover
Nic Cage-screwed on the way in ,screwed on the way out
Danny can spot resto from a scan and thru a plastic slab better than SB can with book in hand
Be careful what you say on the CGC boards. The mods are on constant look out for anyone who might be seditious/make mention of any of these topics.
Gift grades to BTD's. Like an Action#7 that should objectively grade no more than a 6.0 but gets an 8.0 cause it belongs to steve Geppi/Dave J Anderson
Every book listed in MANUFACTURED GOLD which was not even half done before the CGC forumites derailed it and got it locked
The Ewert 1.000. Do you really think all of those books got thru without an inside man at CGC? Where did Ewert live?
AND LASTLY
TEC#27 / the DUPCAK 71

But of course e-bay is a much safer with CGC around.

CG, if you ain't banned yet, i probably just did it for you!
SB, get those lawyers to writing up cease and desist and i will see you in court. Tell them, anything i get goes straight to the FBI so make it nice and threatening.

JohnT go to Collector's Assemble and read EVERYTHING in the right hand column if you really are not a toadie for sour grape todd.

EDUCATE YOURSELF TODAY OR EXPECT TO GET SCREWED TOMORROW!

Alas, I am a novice when it comes to comics. Greg, You are always an interesting read and present some thought provoking ideas.

From my perspective: What has Steve Borock accomplished?

Helped to bring in new money into the hobby!

CGC does have a fair degree of credibility in the marketplace. Is the confidence by the buyers in their grading totally, somewhat, or not at all justified? The biggest anti CGC screams I've heard to date are from the raw book sellers who are having trouble selling their books as easy as the slabbed copies.
The game sure was easier for many, when raw, restored, books were sold without disclosure. Is CGC perfect, good, or have they replaced the unscruoulous dealer and should now wear the black hat? Were we better off when the towns were run by outlaws or are we better off with a possible crooked sheriff? Time will tell but if you can continue to expose the party in power then More power to you.

Much of the innuendos you've cast were right out of the CGC boards so I see little new. Each issue was debated for awhile so I'm not sure the police closed down the threads too quickly? The conspiracies and facts were out there for all to see (who wished to read).

With that said, I have my own views regarding CGC.

a)Do they cater to the BSD's Regarding "gift grades"? Yes. I suspect that High value books submiited by a "friend of the family" gets special treatment. What percentage of the total number of books processed get the three blind mice markup? I suspect that nearly all books are graded fairly. Why ruin your reputation too quickly minipulating $500 books? The MH's, All Amercan 16, Tec 27's all could fit into the bonus grade category. Remember the MH Flash 1 that was graded 9.6 and sold for better than 1/4 mil awhile back? What would you grade the book with a tear and a dust shadow? I would grade the book lower but I'm a novice.

b)Your skepticism on the role of the CGC employee is only part of my concerns. I have the same concern about EVERY AUCTION house employee. Do they tip off their buyside customers at the expense of the sellers? What can be pressed? What can be bumped, etc? I accept the
posibilty as a likelihood even though I'm a novice.

c)My biggest concern is not whether CGC has "friends" who are the benficiaries of the grading but whether they miss restoration. The Ewert scandal flamed for a bit and died quickly. Did Ewert fall on the knife to save his comrades or was Ewert acting alone? I have my doubts that all were caught. Is the trade still being applied sucessfully by him or one of his disciples? I'm noticing an inflation creep in the higher grades. Perhaps pressing is the cause, perhaps the "right people" are submitting books, perhaps mico trimming is back? I'll never know cause I'm a novice.

Money drove the hobby yesterday and money will drive it tomorrow. CGC is a financial enterprise and will push the envelope in order to extract more profits. George, after reading your post, if all true, I'm not sure what I should be surprised about? Despite the fact I am a novice I'm not naive.

Thank you again for a good read.

[The Charlton Guy]

Were we better off when the towns were run by outlaws or are we better off with a possible crooked sheriff?

"Even a novice should be able to figure out that
it's easier to take on a thousand outlaws than
it is to take on one crooked Sheriff."
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/CGwood.jpg

[The Charlton Guy]

Thank you again for a good read.

And thank you for chiming in Novice. And welcome to The Corral! #cowboy#

[Eide]

Hi , Danny

[The Charlton Guy]

I don't think it's him. The IP isn't even close and though the message may sound similar, it just doesn't ring of his banter.

Interestingly, I remember him telling us that he felt it would be a "disaster" if the shenanigans at CGC were brought to light.

But who knows what to think about that statement. It's just too obtuse.

[Eide]

I apologize for not recognizing him at Shaw's. Sorry , i was blinded by rage. Johnt ,sorry you think i speak in riddles but you have not ponied up as to who you are, where you live and what your relation to todd is. i have been more than considerate and open with you.

[The Charlton Guy]

I apologize for not recognizing him at Shaw's. Sorry , i was blinded by rage...

Can I ask a few more questions about "Matt's" visit to your store?

You said he called before coming to your store.

Did you or any of your employees engage him in conversation while he was in your store? Were you even there when he was there? Did he just browse your long-boxes while you evaluated the books? He must have stayed in the store throughout the entire evaluation and bargaining process, right? He must have had something to say. Did he give a "grandfather's attic" spiel?

Where did he say he was from? Did he say he was local or just visiting? Did he say he was referred to you by somebody? Did it seem like he had a particular reason for choosing yours and Todd's store for selling off these books?

He must have had something to say. Can you give us any direct quotes? Even a paraphrase?

[JohnT]

I apologize for not recognizing him at Shaw's. Sorry , i was blinded by rage. Johnt ,sorry you think i speak in riddles but you have not ponied up as to who you are, where you live and what your relation to todd is. i have been more than considerate and open with you.

I'm not saying you should have recognized him, but I am curious how you know it was him now.

As far as who I am, I'm not anybody when it comes to the comic industry. I'm a fan/collector who loves comics. No one in the hobby would know me, because I haven't been involved in clubs or selling or the internet, until recently on the CGC boards.

I'm also a library manager in Hilliard Ohio, a suburb of Columbus. I'm president of this organization:

http://www.darbycreeks.org/

And as I said, I don't know Todd, and the last time I was in Pittsburgh it was to watch the Reds beat the Pirates in the League Championship Series in 1990.

[The Charlton Guy]

...Johnt ,sorry you think i speak in riddles but you have not ponied up as to who you are, where you live and what your relation to todd is. i have been more than considerate and open with you.

Mr. Eide, I know that you "insisted" that you would only respond to questions from those who would willingly identify themselves and their location, but I will make this very clear:

Although the vast majority of us Corral Members know each other on a first name basis and engage in personal correspondence and transactions, it is inappropriate to grill people on their identities in this Forum.

If a Member chooses to remain anonymous, that is their perogative and their right.

And given some of your statements and lack of forthrightness when it comes to very simple, direct questions, particularly from those who complied with your request for personal identification (like me), I would expect that most Members here have very good reason to remain anonymous in your eyes.

And believe me, I am keeping close tabs on all new Members who chime in on this thread.

So I'll repeat, please do not pressure Corral Members, new or old, into revealing their identities.

If they want to tell you, they will. And that's fine.

[Eide]

i have to compose it. Have to get it detailed and in order. It will answer all those questions and more. Maybe Novice can speculate why Danny picked me. If he doesn't , don't worry, I know and I can even back it up with some hard evidence. I need time away from here. More questions directed to me will only delay my delivery of a large and significant post. Talk among yourself. Pursue this , page 397 Overstreet #14. Records? bob djukic? Con-artists ? Complete Timely and DC. Overstreet #15 page a-137. Overstreet#16 page 415 . Overstreet #17 page 472 .DANNY WAS THE KING AND EVERYONE AND I MEAN EVERYONE , BOWED TO HIM.

[The Charlton Guy]

I'll look forward to your summation then.

And this years Overstreet is just full of eye-openers and jaw-droppers too, isn't it?

[novice]

i have to compose it. Have to get it detailed and in order. It will answer all those questions and more. Maybe Novice can speculate why Danny picked me. If he doesn't , don't worry, I know and I can even back it up with some hard evidence. I need time away from here. More questions directed to me will only delay my delivery of a large and significant post. Talk among yourself. Pursue this , page 397 Overstreet #14. Records? bob djukic? Con-artists ? Complete Timely and DC. Overstreet #15 page a-137. Overstreet#16 page 415 . Overstreet #17 page 472 .DANNY WAS THE KING AND EVERYONE AND I MEAN EVERYONE , BOWED TO HIM.

Am I danny? 1 down 19 to go. However, I do live in the same city so does that make us blood brothers? A few years ago I shipped a couple of slabs to DR. Richard Koos (one of Danny's aliases?) so I guess we did transact some business together.

You asked, Why did Danny Pick you?

Perhaps he thought you couldn't tell a tampered book from an unrestored book? Perhaps he has a vandetta against you? Perhaps he was driving around, used a Garmin looking for Comic dealers, and your name came up?
Given my vast experience (attending a dozen local Comic conventions) and buying a couple hundred slabs through auction houses that's the best I can come up with. Perhaps, if you can give me some background on who you are I can do a better job of speculating why he picked you? I'm always happy to be of assistance. I believe I did see your name on a high grade E-Bay ASM auction a number of years ago and I might have sent you an E-Mail so I exaggerate when I say I don't know who you are. To me, You're an E-Bay seller.

If you would like to contact me simply foward your e-mail address and I'll send you back mine. Unfortunately, you are going down a dead end.

[StlComics]

Pursue this , page 397 Overstreet #14. Records? bob djukic? Con-artists ? Complete Timely and DC. Overstreet #15 page a-137. Overstreet#16 page 415 . Overstreet #17 page 472 .

I'm quite afraid my Overstreet collection doesn't go back quite that far. Anyone that owns those issues feeling generous enough to scan those pages for the rest of us to see?

[The Charlton Guy]

I have the #17.

The ad is pretty laughable (in a horrific kind of way).

It's a FANTAZIA aqd for "restoration and enhancement" services. Among other things, it extols the virtues of "invisible manipulation" and the merits of trimming your books. #exorcist#

I'll try and get a photo of it up later tonight.

[Eide]

Please, present the OS pages complete and in chronological order starting with the earliest: the story of Danny the King, whose name and deeds have been conveniently expunged from history, needs proper respect. It is nothing less than Shakespearean and worth the price of admission alone.
I apologize ,again, cg for my PM's to Hoss. Publish them if you wish. Given your gift for mimicry and verbosity coupled with my blinding rage at getting the boot at CGC before I even said "boo" , i mistook the real thing for crass commercialism. I was wrong.

[The Charlton Guy]

Please, present the OS pages complete and in chronological order starting with the earliest: the story of Danny the King, whose name and deeds have been conveniently expunged from history, needs proper respect. It is nothing less than Shakespearean and worth the price of admission alone...

I'm afraid that I only have a copy of #17 from this period. But I do remember somebody posting scans of some of the other ads elsewhere. I'll see if I can find them.


...
I apologize ,again, cg for my PM's to Hoss. Publish them if you wish. Given your gift for mimicry and verbosity coupled with my blinding rage at getting the boot at CGC before I even said "boo" , i mistook the real thing for crass commercialism. I was wrong.

Actually, I never saw your PMs. Hoss just told me that you didn't wish to reply to any of my queries. I am glad that has changed.

As for "crass commercialism"? Well, I do have my moments, but that is certainly one of the least of my motivations.

As for the "real thing" thing?

That's me! #allhailme#

[Eide]

http://www.eides.com/ovst14pg397.jpg






http://www.eides.com/ovst15pga137.jpg







http://www.eides.com/ovst16pga118.jpg






http://www.eides.com/ovst16pg415.jpg






http://www.eides.com/ovst17pg472.jpg


I will try to be by tomorrow. Hey Shawn, where did you get those balls? Are you trying to get banned ? "Why does everyone keep wishing him the "best of luck" on this sale? To me he has been deceitful at best by leaving out key details to the point it's bordering on fraud. He was fooled when he bought this book, and is trying to pass the buck here. Just because he's one of our own you wish him best of luck? "
Gooba, gobble, gooba, gobble.
Fraud upon fraud upon fraud , it's all good !
Pass the burn , grab the buck, history repeats and repeats and repeats.
I know the morality of comics got muddy with the advent of the marvel age and changing times but, didn't any of you take to heart and mind the lessons taught us in the great majority of GA and SA comics.
Shawn, stand tall against the pod people.

[StlComics]

Thanks for posting the Fantazia ads. I think I might have seen one of them (or another like them) previously in a CBG article/webpage. This is the first time I've seen most of those ads though, for sure. If you don't mind, I'd like to save those images and rehost them for use at my own site. :D

[marvelguy]

That last ad............#shock#

[Eide]

STL, please feel free to re-post the old Danny ads where ever you like. Sorry , i did not get to writing/posting my "afternoon" with Danny as i hoped to. I will get to it as soon as i can. Please bear with me and read the Gus/Bluechip/Action#1 thread on CGC ; it is all connected whether you choose to see it or not.

[Eide]

Not OT and fascinating as all hell Bluechip/Gus/Action#1 thread.

You got Danny as Dr. Manhattan (now banned as usual) but still present as at least one or two other shills hell bent on stirring the shit. Delekestre , smartest guy in the room, calll him Danny when you sniff him out. People have ADD and using any of DD's old aliases only serves to confuse these poor souls even more. Chameleooncomicics is not Goon. DKeeneman is no "Novice" and he isn't a JKRK maybe he is a Superman 2006? I love how the CGC forumites continually find "new" e-bayers who "rival" Robojo ;ssteve1011, 19jack76, sspidey76,wjclinton, nymotordude, funstuf69,jlmustang, bobdjukic etc. etc..Follow the trail of purchases,
sales, shill bids and shill buys to set plateau prices and up his own
feedback. Computers leave incredible trails.

You got Gus/Greg Jortner who have been fronting Danny books as the European 875.

You got Bluechip taking advantage of a dealer who has no compunction about listing books with undisclosed resto.

You got Bluechip's verbal gymnastics. "Nothing else done to the book to improve it " and i am not going to tell you about all the things done to this book that imo did not improve it.

You got the NODs screaming disclose the resto and Bluechip retorting, i do not have to adhere to your definitions and policies.

You got logical but irrelevant(???) arguements by Bluechip on why he has refused to cgc it.

You got undeniable but irrelevant (???) proof that cgc is just all over the place on the grading and noting on restored books. All of which pales against accusations of restored books in blue labels.

You got people who accept Bluechip as one of their own and best of luck cause the more you get for that pos the more i can sell mine for.

You got people totally unconcerned with whether someone is going to get royally ripped off.

You got the summation of the Danny Defense. " If CGC and Heritage can collude to put manipulated books in blue labels , then I can manipulate books too and not disclose it. If you buy a book from me and it comes back restored after third-party certification, then I will refund your money. No harm, no foul. At least I offer you more then what CGC does. Therefore my actions are justifiable. Wheras CGC's are not because they can change the rules on a whim to suit their business needs". MJ

You got Theo Holstein wearing nothing but a Fu Manchu and a Speedo and the begining of the push the envelope on pricing market.

You got Bedrock complaining about the "evil inherent in the Gallery of Disclosure". You gotta stay away from the tree of knowledge or you will most assuredly be cast out from CGC Eden.

You got Zaid ready to form the Disclosure Task Force with the "support" of OS advisors and Gemstone. From my experience, people do not like to willingly participate in their own destruction. But, what a dream come true it would be to see Zaid as Elliot Ness cracking suspicious blue slabs and saying " check'em Sue".

You got the innocence of a 10 cent morality play pamphlet meant to entertain, amuse and fire the imagination of schoolboys FUBARed to reflect a world gone mad with greed.

You got more and more people, hopefully, educating themselves and realizing this ship has hit the iceberg and is taking on water fast. MAN THE LIFE BOATS !!!

[The Charlton Guy]

Greg or Paul A. or whoever the hell you are:

You have time to read and list the pissings and moanings of a 106 page CGC thread but not the time to give us the "proof" you promised that Daniel Dupcak was in your store last fall?

Very disapointing.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but now I feel that you are just continuing to take me for a ride, and that you are purely and simply full of shit. Sorry for the crudity of language, but your continued promises, followed only by more and more sidestepping is more than tedious. It is annoying.

And it is not appreciated.

[Capitalrecoveryman]

Come then! My log does not judge!

[The Charlton Guy]

Mine does...

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/the-rifleman.jpg

[JohnT]

Well, he did apologize for not getting to the story...

[The Charlton Guy]

Yeah, he did...but that's the problem. It's just a story.

[Eide]

9/29/07 an "afternoon" with "Matt and Stacy" continued.

At 1PM Matt presented the 71 unbagged comics to my manager in a non-comic box with packing material buffering the two piles of comics and an Overstreet Price Guide #37 on top. My manager diligently graded the comics appearing on the page begining with Secrets of the Invisible Clan and down to Movie Comics #1.

I showed up at 2:15 PM and after going through various sales receipts for the day, sat down and looked through the 71 books to make a general assessment. The books ranged in condition anywhere from apparent 2.0 up to apparent 8.0 with most in the range of apparent 6.0. A good many of the titles were from 1938 and 1939 and then jumped to 1944. I considered the condition unusually high for an "attic" find. The fact that all the books were flat, clean and consistently glossy despite the varying conditions, seemed very strange to me. The range of the page quality also appeared odd. Seemed more like a group of books cobbled together over a period of time rather than a 00 collection bought off newsstands and preserved together for over 60 years.

Matt and Stacy were not the least bit talkative. Other than that they were "from West VA" and that Matt was "familiar" with Eide's and they had "recently" found the 71 books in the attic of Matt's great grandfather, they had given my manager no other info.

I stated that the comics were unusually clean and well preserved for being in an attic for over 60 years. I stated that even items locked in trunks in attics for over 60 years tend to come with a film of dust. Matt had no comment. I asked him who owned the books and he said his great grandfather born in 1906. I did the math and said that would mean he started buying these comics when he was 32 which struck me as odd. Matt said "Yeah he was into a lot of different things."

I asked what he wanted for the lot and he shrugged and gave no answer. I asked if this was all the books they had and he gave some unintelligible story about two halves of a collection, they were apart, now they're back together, no answer to if there were more but, he did have an Action #1 that he thinks he sold for $10,000 in Pittsburgh at a convention at Monroeville Mall years ago. That con was over 25 years ago and he could not remember who he sold it to. I asked if he knew Steve Geppi and he responded no and did not ask who's Steve Geppi? He went off on a tangent talking about a mother needing am operation and how he met Stacy the only good thing in his life. He tried to make a show of a relationship with Stacy but there was nothing demonstrated by either of them during their time in my store that would lead me to believe that their "relationship" wasn't part of a con job.

My manager showed me two or three very thin 10" strips of paper inside the Daredevil #42 and asked what's this? I said that it must have been trimmings from when the book was originally printed and told him to just put them back in the book.

My manager handed me the Action #7 and asked what do you think? I observed all the transfer/rub off on the front cover and followed it down to the right bottom quadrant; big circle transfer from the back cover of a magazine that reads "Lucky Strike" in mirror reverse. I commented that with all that transfer and from my experience with CGC, that that book would not receive much better than a 6.0. We agreed on a generous 6.5. A 7.0 on that book would be a surprise and a 8.0 would be nothing short of a miracle.

My manager handed me the Adventures to grade while he did the 4 Actions. On the work "copies" sent to Metropolis and previously posted, all entered info was by my manager. On the original copies, not yet presented there are notes in my handwriting added later that day and a couple days later. I graded the Adventure #81 and then looked at the #76. In the cameo top left corner, Hourman appears to have two black eyes. I wondered if this was this was a printing defect or if someone had colored in the eyes or added a mask. I had never seen this on any Adventures that I had owned or in the Gerber listings on any Adventures. I checked the front inside of the cover to see if anything had transferred to the inside. Matt took the book from my hands, scrutinized the cover closely and then checked the inside and proclaimed "No that's just a printing defect."

After grading the Adventure #76, I had a pile of 11 Adventures from 24-41. The size and cut of those 11 was unnatural. All had dead on cut edges/covers, sharp corners and were the exact same size. I stood one up beside the Adventure #76 and showed it to my manager. We both said "It's TRIMMED!" At that point, Stacy who had only uttered one other statement in front of me, spoke up and said "WHAT'S TRIMMED?" Before my manager or I could speak, Matt said "That's when someone takes a collectible and they cut the edges off to make the item appear to be better than it was so they can get more money for it. I hate when people do that!"

After about 15 seconds of stunned silence, my manager and I went about checking all the DC's for trim. My manager rechecked the 4 Actions he had just done and determined that 2 of the 4 were trimmed. I agreed. The #11 was severely trimmed but, though I agree the #7 was trimmed, I do not agree that it was severely trimmed. You can see where my manager regraded the Actions and the Movie Comics. Everything after the Adventure #76 was scrutinized for trim on initial grading.

We began sorting the books into piles of trimmed and not trimmed. Matt who was sullen from the get go was now even more sullen. "No way." he said "No way, these books have been in an attic for 60 years, nobody touched them." That story changed later to "Every time I get something good, something has to come along and spoil it." We said take it easy, even though there were trimmed books they were still valuable and we would like to finish the evaluation.

Like the 11 small Adventures, there were 9 small Detectives and 2 small More Funs. The trimming on the majority of the remaining DC's, including the Tec #27, was more subtle and less extensive. My manager spent a total of 3 hours examining the books. I spent a total of an hour and a half. Once we were done, Matt proclaimed he wanted $200,000 for the Tec #27 and $200,000 for the other 70 books. We replied being that half of the books were trimmed, the retail on the books would not be more than $100,000. We stated that trimmed, the Tec #27 was worth about $50,000 but if we were wrong, and we knew we were not, the book could be worth as much as $200,000. We explained that the book needed to be sent to CGC to verify whether it was trimmed. Matt said "I can sell it on eBay." We replied that unless you were a known dealer and knew how to grade or had the the book certified, you would not get a fair price for it on eBay. We explained CGC to him, said it would cost $1,000 to grade it but then, if it was not trimmed, he could easily get $150,000 for it. We handed him a CGC form.

Matt purchased the GA mylars and boards that we recomended, packed up his books and left at 4PM. Matt left the CGC form on the desk.

To be continued.

[The Charlton Guy]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/suspense.jpg

[Burntboy]

Greg (if I may be so familiar), I patiently await the next installment of this fascinating tale.

correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the action 7 grade out at an unrestored 8.0 and sell for an obscene amount of money?? and, do you know with any certainty if the Tec 27 has been given the green light by CGC?? i've seen a lot of speculation on the CGC board but no real verification. (and this topic has all but died there, since you got the boot).

Thanks....................harry.

[The Charlton Guy]

...correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the action 7 grade out at an unrestored 8.0 and sell for an obscene amount of money??
Thanks....................harry.

I can answer that.

It sold for $143,000.00 through Heritage.

[Eide]

Davenport, I wondered where you were? Harry, we have mutual friends, acquaintances and enemies but be careful of the questions you ask. You are already guilty by association, improper questions only exacerbate your guilt.
1.The Action#7 was, imo, intentionally overgraded to a. make it more valuable b.make it the best copy in the world and c.make it obviously over graded so no one would ever be foolish enough to crack it for fear of loosing the illusion that it is an 8.0 unrestored and the best copy in the world.
2.The book was alledgedly offered by Heritage pre-auction at $75k and there were no takers. Guess the eventual "winner" thought the book would go for less than that. The involved parties perhaps had an interest in a private vs. a public sale.
3.The "winner" paid $143.400 including the 19.5% buyer's fee but the consignor was charged zero.
4.It would be interesting to know if the winner had placed a ceiling bid.
5.Buffy fan attended the floor auction and thought "Alan" or Geppi were calling in bids on certain items.
6.ML won the book but who was the person bidding against him?
7.Who was noted as the submitting owner? I know who the true owner was.What could stop the real owner from bidding on his own book if he was not listed as the submiter/owner of the book. Nothing illegal there, right!
Texas rules!

[The Charlton Guy]

Davenport, I wondered where you were? Harry, we have mutual friends, acquaintances and enemies but be careful of the questions you ask. You are already guilty by association, improper questions only exacerbate your guilt.
1.The Action#7 was, imo, intentionally overgraded to a. make it more valuable b.make it the best copy in the world and c.make it obviously over graded so no one would ever be foolish enough to crack it for fear of loosing the illusion that it is an 8.0 unrestored and the best copy in the world.
2.The book was alledgedly offered by Heritage pre-auction at $75k and there were no takers. Guess the eventual "winner" thought the book would go for less than that. The involved parties perhaps had an interest in a private vs. a public sale.
3.The "winner" paid $143.400 including the 19.5% buyer's fee but the consignor was charged zero.
4.It would be interesting to know if the winner had placed a ceiling bid.
5.Buffy fan attended the floor auction and thought "Alan" or Geppi were calling in bids on certain items.
6.ML won the book but who was the person bidding against him?
7.Who was noted as the submitting owner? I know who the true owner was.What could stop the real owner from bidding on his own book if he was not listed as the submiter/owner of the book. Nothing illegal there, right!
Texas rules!

Texas rules. #cowboy#

Ashtabula drools. #creep#

[JohnT]

Wow, now that's an interesting account!

All right, Mr. Eide, let's say your theory is accurate that all ethical restraints have disappeared at CGC and/or Heritage, and with many other individuals involved with these transactions....

One thing that strikes me is that you have apparently used CGC grading to your great advantage in the past (judging by your auctions on ebay), and you advised "Matt" to use them to check your opinion that the book was trimmed. And I believe you challenged Todd to a bet that the book wouldn't come back clean from CGC. Given this, I'm going to assume that you've had a huge change of heart on their reliability just over this lot of books? Prior to this you apparently trusted them.

The question that that raises in my mind is this: is there any chance that you may have been wrong about the majority of books being trimmed? Granted, the conduct of Matt sounds highly suspicious, and the trimmings in the Daredevil more than suspicious. But is there a chance that the suspicious nature of the seller, and finding trimmings in one book, could have caused you and your manager to become overly suspicious of the rest of the books?

Again, I have no experience with spotting expertly trimmed books. Maybe it's obvious?

Well, as we've said before, a lot depends on how sure you are this was indeed, the evil one.

Staying tuned...

[Burntboy]

John T; my curiosity has been especially piqued regarding those books that GREG E. claims were "significantly trimmed". don't believe i've heard of any of those showing up in Blue Labels yet.

Books like the Tec 27 and the Action 7, seem to have appeared to greg to likely be trimmed but not significantly. for me, that opens up the door to both possibilities. when a Pro says a book has been "significantly trimmed", i would feel that the likelihood of trimming had shifted over to the plus column.

but who knows - i'm not trying to stir anything up, i've just found this subject and the recent Action 1 topic, to be educational, informative and (dare I say) entertaining?!?!

[The Charlton Guy]

Hello Burntboy! Welcome to the Corral!

Here's a scan of the $143,500.00 book in question in order to refresh everybody's memory:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/Action7.jpg

[The Charlton Guy]

AAnd here's the Who-knows-how-many-dollars-this-one-is-going-to-go-for book in question:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/detective_front.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/detective_back.jpg

Six months later, and still no slab, no sale (on record).

[The Charlton Guy]

Hey folks, it's Announcement time! :p

First off, let me say that what is about to follow was setup by yours truly in advance of my recent banning at the CGC Forum.

It has absolutely nothing to do with that event. An event that it has taken me all of 24 hours to put behind me and though there is some remorse involved in the CG/CGC scenario, I have pretty much put it into the "goodbye and good riddance" category.

So enough about that. At least on this thread.

Back to the topic of this thread, and the issues and Announcement at hand:

First off, in case you hadn't gathered, I am still highly skeptical of Mr. Eide's assertions.

Second off, I am still very irked that Mr. Eide has managed to come back on Board after being banned. Granted, his return was of my own doing, and only by my own (and the ever-affable Hoss's) forebearance has it been that he has been allowed to return to tell his story.

But as I have said, I am still irked. Irked because he was the one who dragged me into the middle of this convoluted transaction with his PaulA. nonsense and the "Grassy Knoll" conspiracy theories that lie at the heart of Mr. Eide's tale.

As the weeks have worn on here, and I wait week by week for enough concrete proof to either believe or dismiss what he has to say, I still find his story lacking. Seriously lacking in proof of his assertions, and thus seriously lacking in any way, shape or means of credibility.

And as I said shortly after Mr. Eide came back on Board, "I will be damned if I will ignore the same critera that got AceVentura bannned" just so Mr. Eide can continue to spin his shaggy dog tale.

So I'll be damned no longer, and we will herby commence to go for ONE WEEK under the following philosophy:

"What's good for the goose is good for the gander"

So I am going to allow AceVentura to return here for ONE WEEK ONLY in order to address Mr. Eide's assertions regarding the non-transaction in Mr. Eide's store last September.

For those who don't know, AceVentura has been accused by many (including yours truly), of being Daniel Dupcak/Comic-Keys/Hammer/AveVentura/Robojo33/and a host of other evil personages including an octagenarian Hitler Youth, a baby seal-killing eskimo, and Exxon/Mobil executive (with bonuses) and is well known as perhaps the worst felon ever to plague the comic book collecting community.

But I really do feel that given Mr. Eide's accusations, he deserves a chance to speak his piece. After all, even a baby seal-killer deserves a second chance.

I have spoken with Hoss about this over the last week and he is very reluctant, but agreeable, WITH certain firm rules. I have discussed these rules with AceVentura and he is disappointed, but agreeable. Just so all of you Corral Members and fellow Moderators know, the rules are as follows:

1) The first and firmest rule is the ONE WEEK limit to this brief return.

2) The second, equally firm rule is that Ace will be restricted to posting on this TEC27 thread only.

3) The third is that Ace is not to PM or personally contact any Corral Member via PM or email (other than me). So I would ask that all other Corral Members repect this rule as well and not send any PMs to Ace. Let's keep all communications out in the open, right here on this thread.

4) Once the ONE WEEK is up, AceVentura will be permanently banned, never to return to The Corral. As will Mr. Eide. That's right, you both have ONE WEEK to state your case, prove your points, lay it all out on the table and then the both of you are gone for good.

Again, this is because both of you have been previously banned here, and Hoss is making this unprecedented exception to the permanent ban rules only at my relentless goading (thanks Hoss).

So that's that. You both have ONE WEEK.

Have fun!

[oxbladder]

and I am out of here for a week

[The Charlton Guy]

and I am out of here for a week

I figured as such. Best wishes to you Ox and I'll talk with you soon.

[AceVentura]

and I am out of here for a week

That's unfortunate. I'm here to help by making valid, factual points based on invaluable knowledge in all probability far and beyond anyone in the hobby with very few exceptions. I doubt there's anyone that can really dispute that. Not if you read my St.Louis and CPG posts, all of which were written 2 to 5 years prior to Master Chief's "Manufactured Gold" thread. Plus I have exhibited a definite ability to identify angle trimmed books within the blue label slab from scans alone, something most say "Can't be done".

There many valid points made here by George, and many false ones that George thinks are true, but simply aren't, and those false ones are muddying the VALID points he's making about the dynamics and politics of this hobby amongst the higher ups. I would think that you would want to stick around and see what unfolds if I can in some way help him organize the fact from fiction and maybe contribute as well.

BTW, Hello Everybody!!

[The Charlton Guy]

Hi CK.

I hate to break the news, but I will be in Oxbladder's corner on this one. I won't have much to say for the next week.

Though I'm sure there are a few folks who will have some questions for you, I won't be one of them this time around.

In my book, this week is between you and Mr. Eide. A chance for both of you to state your cases and then be on your merry way.

I hope one or the other (or maybe both) of you are able to hash this out and get some facts on the table, but I will just be Moderating this time around. Maybe contributing a wisecrack or two (can't help myself).

You two have fun.

[AceVentura]

Hello Burntboy! Welcome to the Corral!

Here's a scan of the $143,500.00 book in question in order to refresh everybody's memory:



http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/Action7.jpg



Yes. If I had to venture a guess, I'd probably vote for this #7 being trimmed based on appearance alone. Unfortunately, having 16 sheets of paper instead of 8, trying to determine trim based on size alone is nothing but a crap shoot. The tolerances on Silver age comics aren't precise, allowing for variations in size, but compared to the wide tolerance variance on Golden age, Silver age, though variable, are far more precise!

I can easily determine angle trimmed SILVER age books due to a certain edge configuration CONTRARY to the expected norm viewed against the perspective of the CGC holder's rails (I've said this before. It's only super apparent to me what's trimmed and what's not when the book is slabbed and I have that added rail as a referential point), but Golden age DOESN'T HAVE THIS EXPECTED NORM with which to make visual comparison.

Direct page end examination is the only definitive way to determine trim on the overwhelming majority of Golden age books.

Action #7?? My opinion is inconclusive. 50/50. Looks trimmed based on size and that top angle cut, but because Golden age cuts are all over the place, that in itself isn't indicative enough to convict the book of being trimmed.

[AceVentura]

http://www.eides.com/ovst14pg397.jpg








http://www.eides.com/ovst15pga137.jpg









http://www.eides.com/ovst16pga118.jpg








http://www.eides.com/ovst16pg415.jpg








http://www.eides.com/ovst17pg472.jpg



I will try to be by tomorrow. Hey Shawn, where did you get those balls? Are you trying to get banned ? "Why does everyone keep wishing him the "best of luck" on this sale? To me he has been deceitful at best by leaving out key details to the point it's bordering on fraud. He was fooled when he bought this book, and is trying to pass the buck here. Just because he's one of our own you wish him best of luck? "
Gooba, gobble, gooba, gobble.
Fraud upon fraud upon fraud , it's all good !
Pass the burn , grab the buck, history repeats and repeats and repeats.
I know the morality of comics got muddy with the advent of the marvel age and changing times but, didn't any of you take to heart and mind the lessons taught us in the great majority of GA and SA comics.
Shawn, stand tall against the pod people.

George, What I'm most curious about is what the connection between Fantazia and Geppi is?? Why is the Geppi Mile High registration page included with the Fantazia as pages??

[The Charlton Guy]

It could be because Mr. Eide asserts that Mr. Geppi ended up with some of the 71 books he says you brought in his store. Including this copy of Action #7.

[AceVentura]

It could be because Mr. Eide asserts that Mr. Geppi ended up with some of the 71 books he says you brought in his store. Including this copy of Action #7.

After reading the thread, I'm aware of his beliefs, and I'm sure that he genuinely believes in them. I thought he was associating Geppi, as an entity in some way, with Fantazia.

Interesting enough, I haven't noticed a description of "Matt" other than to say he looked like DDs arrest photo from the early 90s, only with blonde hair. Did he or any of his employees mention his height and weight? If he had any distinctive body markings, tatoos, scars? His approx. AGE??? And what he was DRIVING? I would think that suspicious that this was DD, George would have sent someone outside to get a plate number or a car make/model, etc. After all, "Matt" was there how long? 3 hours+.

That should be enough time for all the employees and George to make an extremely accurate description on "Matt".

George, can you add anything here on description other than "DD's early 90s corrections photo. Things that the photo doesn't reveal??

[The Charlton Guy]

I have been eagerly waiting for a better description of "Matt" as well.

Of "Stacy" too.

They must have been there the entire time...what...perusing Mr. Eide's longboxes? I doubt it. Likely looking over their shoulders the whole time.

The description seems incredibly vague given such alleged circumstances.

[AceVentura]

This promises to be the best match you could set up without a steel cage. #allhailme#

I thought Mr. eide's story made for very compelling reading. I guess the content will be challenged over the next week or so by your new guest? I will remain on the sidelines since I have little to add and will wait to see who/both can climb outta the ring. I don't know who Mr. Eide's is but to use one of his phrases: He comes accross like an ace who can nail you with a hammer
but he certainly isn't Dupcak.

Speaking of Hammer, I believe I once sold him a book but I shipped it to Utah. I shipped Richard Koo's books to Queens so I'm a bit confused. Maybe I've always been that way?:D

I'm not here to challenge George at all. Whether by accident or design, George has stumbled upon certain nuggets of knowledge about this hobby that are very very real. Things I spoke of 8 years ago after learning exactly WHO CGC and their associates REALLY were. I'm not going to rehash that here as I've come to believe that as corrupt as they are, the hobby is far better off WITH CGC and their associates and owners than without them.

If not for them, AF 15s would still be selling for $5000 in VFN! CGC, due to their associates efforts, and they themselves getting RICHER, have turned the hobby into a very profitable venue for those hanging onto the back car of the express train.

There are many things George is stating that is also so fallacious, so completely without any merits whatsoever, that it's HURTING his overall arguments and VALID points. He's shooting arrows EVERYWHERE, without concentrating his focus on the FACTUAL points he's made about this hobby.

If I can help him, I will.

[MasterChief]

That's unfortunate. I'm here to help by making valid, factual points based on invaluable knowledge in all probability far and beyond anyone in the hobby with very few exceptions. I doubt there's anyone that can really dispute that. Not if you read my St.Louis and CPG posts, all of which were written 2 to 5 years prior to Master Chief's "Manufactured Gold" thread. Plus I have exhibited a definite ability to identify angle trimmed books within the blue label slab from scans alone, something most say "Can't be done".

There many valid points made here by George, and many false ones that George thinks are true, but simply aren't, and those false ones are muddying the VALID points he's making about the dynamics and politics of this hobby amongst the higher ups. I would think that you would want to stick around and see what unfolds if I can in some way help him organize the fact from fiction and maybe contribute as well.

BTW, Hello Everybody!!

Okay, I got a question…

You've been using the name "George" for awhile now, but isn't Mr. Eide's first name "Greg"?

Please clarify.

[novice]

Hey folks, it's Announcement time! :p

First off, let me say that what is about to follow was setup by yours truly in advance of my recent banning at the CGC Forum.

It has absolutely nothing to do with that event. An event that it has taken me all of 24 hours to put behind me and though there is some remorse involved in the CG/CGC scenario, I have pretty much put it into the "goodbye and good riddance" category.

So enough about that. At least on this thread.

Back to the topic of this thread, and the issues and Announcement at hand:

First off, in case you hadn't gathered, I am still highly skeptical of Mr. Eide's assertions.

Second off, I am still very irked that Mr. Eide has managed to come back on Board after being banned. Granted, his return was of my own doing, and only by my own (and the ever-affable Hoss's) forebearance has it been that he has been allowed to return to tell his story.

But as I have said, I am still irked. Irked because he was the one who dragged me into the middle of this convoluted transaction with his PaulA. nonsense and the "Grassy Knoll" conspiracy theories that lie at the heart of Mr. Eide's tale.

As the weeks have worn on here, and I wait week by week for enough concrete proof to either believe or dismiss what he has to say, I still find his story lacking. Seriously lacking in proof of his assertions, and thus seriously lacking in any way, shape or means of credibility.

And as I said shortly after Mr. Eide came back on Board, "I will be damned if I will ignore the same critera that got AceVentura bannned" just so Mr. Eide can continue to spin his shaggy dog tale.

So I'll be damned no longer, and we will herby commence to go for ONE WEEK under the following philosophy:

"What's good for the goose is good for the gander"

So I am going to allow AceVentura to return here for ONE WEEK ONLY in order to address Mr. Eide's assertions regarding the non-transaction in Mr. Eide's store last September.

For those who don't know, AceVentura has been accused by many (including yours truly), of being Daniel Dupcak/Comic-Keys/Hammer/AveVentura/Robojo33/and a host of other evil personages including an octagenarian Hitler Youth, a baby seal-killing eskimo, and Exxon/Mobil executive (with bonuses) and is well known as perhaps the worst felon ever to plague the comic book collecting community.

But I really do feel that given Mr. Eide's accusations, he deserves a chance to speak his piece. After all, even a baby seal-killer deserves a second chance.

I have spoken with Hoss about this over the last week and he is very reluctant, but agreeable, WITH certain firm rules. I have discussed these rules with AceVentura and he is disappointed, but agreeable. Just so all of you Corral Members and fellow Moderators know, the rules are as follows:

1) The first and firmest rule is the ONE WEEK limit to this brief return.

2) The second, equally firm rule is that Ace will be restricted to posting on this TEC27 thread only.

3) The third is that Ace is not to PM or personally contact any Corral Member via PM or email (other than me). So I would ask that all other Corral Members repect this rule as well and not send any PMs to Ace. Let's keep all communications out in the open, right here on this thread.

4) Once the ONE WEEK is up, AceVentura will be permanently banned, never to return to The Corral. As will Mr. Eide. That's right, you both have ONE WEEK to state your case, prove your points, lay it all out on the table and then the both of you are gone for good.

Again, this is because both of you have been previously banned here, and Hoss is making this unprecedented exception to the permanent ban rules only at my relentless goading (thanks Hoss).

So that's that. You both have ONE WEEK.

Have fun!

This promises to be the best match you could sset up without a steel cage. #allhailme#

I thought Mr. eide's story made for very compelling reading. I guess the content will be challenged over the next week or so by your new guest? I will remain on the sidelines since I have little to add and will wait to see who/both can climb outta the ring. I don't know who Mr. Eide's is but to use one of his phrases: He comes accross like an ace who can nail you with a hammer
but he certainly isn't Dupcak.

Speaking of Hammer, I believe I once sold him a book but I shipped it to Utah. I shipped Richard Koo's books to Queens so I'm a bit confused. Maybe I've always been that way?:D

[AceVentura]

I have been eagerly waiting for a better description of "Matt" as well.

Of "Stacy" too.

They must have been there the entire time...what...perusing Mr. Eide's longboxes? I doubt it. Likely looking over their shoulders the whole time.

The description seems incredibly vague given such alleged circumstances.

You stare into someone's face for over 3 hours, you're going to notice ALOT of things. I've never even heard once what "Matt" was wearing!

Strikes me strange too that DD, hailed by some as an "evil genius" would walk into a store to sell 71 trimmed books HIMSELF.

If his woman was a plant, why wouldn't HE use another plant for himself??? Also, "Matt" expected George to have $200 to $250 K in CASH!!! Right there in his store to buy these???

People always brag in the Overstreet, but what idiot would walk into a store and expect an owner to have a quarter million dollars cash handy for purchases???

Did "Matt" count on a bank check for payment??? Or other paper payment?? If so, how was he going to have George make out the payment so it could be cashed or deposited???

DD's supposed to be smart, right?? Like "the Fox" in the Peter Seller's movies. He dyes his hair BLONDE and THAT'S his disguise???? :rolleyes:

Of all the disguises to pick, right??? If I wanted to disguise myself, I sure wouldn't dye my hair a different color. I'd grow a full beard, shave my head, or wear a friggin turban, and wear glasses.

If I had a certain, recognizable body type, I'd dress and stuff my clothes in a certain way to suggest a DIFFERENT body type.

That's the way you disguise yourself. Not dying your hair blonde!!

Has DD been spotted in ANY store or ANY convention in the past 15 years??

Dispensing books this way makes no sense at all for DD.

And aside from all that, IF I'm DD, WHY wouldn't I have just auctioned these a little at a time on Ebay over the past 9 years??
I'm always accused of being DD, and accused of knowingly passing restored books on Ebay, right???
So WHY would these have been any different if that was my intention and I was DD???
If DD were actively selling on Ebay, why wouldn't HE have listed these over time or all at once???

Matt being DD flies contrary to all applicable logic.

[AceVentura]

Okay, I got a question…

You've been using the name "George" for awhile now, but isn't Mr. Eide's first name "Greg"?

Please clarify.

Master, your Manufactured Gold thread is/was BRILLIANT. And best of all, some of them actually LISTENED to what you taught!! If you ever want to see copies of all of my posts on the CPG and St.Louis forums during 2003 to 2006, I'll bebhappy to accomodate you. They read VERY close to your tremendous thread!!

[novice]

After reading the thread, I'm aware of his beliefs, and I'm sure that he genuinely believes in them. I thought he was associating Geppi, as an entity in some way, with Fantazia.

Interesting enough, I haven't noticed a description of "Matt" other than to say he looked like DDs arrest photo from the early 90s, only with blonde hair. Did he or any of his employees mention his height and weight? If he had any distinctive body markings, tatoos, scars? His approx. AGE??? And what he was DRIVING? I would think that suspicious that this was DD, George would have sent someone outside to get a plate number or a car make/model, etc. After all, "Matt" was there how long? 3 hours+.

That should be enough time for all the employees and George to make an extremely accurate description on "Matt".

George, can you add anything here on description other than "DD's early 90s corrections photo. Things that the photo doesn't reveal??

I guess my question would be whether Greg ever met Danny in person & how many times since he didn't seem to recognize him while in the store?

[AceVentura]

"Theo Holstein" mentioned by Eide in the mix. Drawing a blank. Anyone?

[AceVentura]

I've researched the short lived Fantazia restoration service thoroghly. Constantly accused of being Fantazia, you can imagine, I've researched all things Fantazia/DD to the best of my ability.

During the 80s, resto was viewed differently than today. It was accepted by most and not villified as it has become since the advent of the purple label.

Bill Sarill would openly sit at a major NYC dealer's show tables an RESTORE comics openly! He would also commission work of greater complexity to take back to Mass. with him.

Mark Wilson, one of today's most trustworthy and honest dealers, couldn't sell a book without tweaking it SOMEHOW back then (I guess things haven't changed much, right?).

Not many people cared, and MOST of those big superkey books that were bought and sold tweaked, pressed and cleaned, and described as RESTORED by 1980s dealers and 1990s auction houses are TODAY RESIDING IN BLUE LABEL SLABS ANYWAY!!

Many resto services were available, and for one Overstreet ad, Fantazia offered a service. This service was not performed by DD, and even though Eide said it was, nowhere in the ad is trimming offered or extolled if you read the ad.

Cantie Brevard, who was already a customer and seller at Fantazia, later an employee of CGC, approached Fantazia with the idea of running a resto service. They would split the ad and DD would get a % of the fees he commissioned for Cantie through Fantazia.

The way I understand it, Cantie's work was SO HORRIBLE, DD heard nothing but compalints about Cantie's work looking like "paint by numbers patchwork". These were regular customers using the service and they were being VERY disappointed.

Due to this, Fantazia never ran another ad for resto services and abandoned up that faction of the business. In 2004, when I mentioned this on the CGC forums, Cantie Brevard, as SuperDuperComics posted that this wasn't true. But it was. Cantie was just trying to put as much distance between Fantazia and himself as possible.

[The Charlton Guy]

"Theo Holstein" mentioned by Eide in the mix. Drawing a blank. Anyone?

:confused:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/1163277410_0b9aacdad5.jpg

[StlComics]

Master, your Manufactured Gold thread is/was BRILLIANT. And best of all, some of them actually LISTENED to what you taught!! If you ever want to see copies of all of my posts on the CPG and St.Louis forums during 2003 to 2006, I'll bebhappy to accomodate you. They read VERY close to your tremendous thread!!

You still didn't tell us who George is as Masterchief asked...

[MasterChief]

Master, your Manufactured Gold thread is/was BRILLIANT. And best of all, some of them actually LISTENED to what you taught!! If you ever want to see copies of all of my posts on the CPG and St.Louis forums during 2003 to 2006, I'll bebhappy to accomodate you. They read VERY close to your tremendous thread!!
Thx. The thread was indeed interesting as I learned a lot myself. The commentary in between examples (both public and private) was most fascinating and enlightening for me, as I learned just who the voices were behind the CGC posts and what they truly stood for.

It's unfortunate the thread was locked, however, as there was more content to present, as you can image. The discussion points were loosely presented but fell in place quite nicely thanks in large part to the participants. A few critics surmised that the 19 cases presented were the extent of the manipulation examples catalogued and even challenged the direction the presentation was going. But that was simply not the case. Little did they realize that the illustration of (botched) restoration removal treatments were a mere digressional point to examine a broader prospective and demonstrate relationship, and that additional material was forthcoming to reinforce understanding. However, that will not happen now. The temperament has changed in that venue, which is truly regrettable.

Yes, I would be interested in your copies. I have read some of them and they indeed were/are innovative and compelling. So much so they drove me to breakaway from the boards and conduct my own research. So in that regard I "listen" to you, and it was most beneficial for my own education.

But let us dispense with the mutual admiration society and backslapping before I am accused of being you and you are accused of being me (again). And if you would, please answer the question…

Why do you keep calling Mr. Eide "George"?

[AceVentura]

Why do you keep calling Mr. Eide "George"?

I forgot his first name was Greg. George, Greg, there's really only 1 letter difference. I think Charlton Guy called him George once or twice and I picked up on his name as being George. Personally, I like George Eide better than Greg Eide. More letters to work with you play those anagram name games.

[JohnT]

John T; my curiosity has been especially piqued regarding those books that GREG E. claims were "significantly trimmed". don't believe i've heard of any of those showing up in Blue Labels yet.

Books like the Tec 27 and the Action 7, seem to have appeared to greg to likely be trimmed but not significantly. for me, that opens up the door to both possibilities. when a Pro says a book has been "significantly trimmed", i would feel that the likelihood of trimming had shifted over to the plus column.

but who knows - i'm not trying to stir anything up, i've just found this subject and the recent Action 1 topic, to be educational, informative and (dare I say) entertaining?!?!

I would think that if I had a stack of books to assess (and possibly shell out big bucks for), and I spotted some blatantly trimmed books, I'd start seeing suspicious shapes and angles all over the place.

[JohnT]

Hello Burntboy! Welcome to the Corral!

Here's a scan of the $143,500.00 book in question in order to refresh everybody's memory:


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/Action7.jpg


This book looks a little tilted to the right--not from trimming but because it is physically in the case crooked.

[JohnT]

Here's a question for Ace:

What is this "angle trimming" that you've mentioned? I think I understand what it is, but why do people angle trim vs. trying to trim a whole edge and thus keep everything evened up. Is it an easier cut to make?

Another question:

How does having the book in hand allow you to spot trimming, vs. just comparing shape and size.

[MasterChief]

Why do you keep calling Mr. Eide "George"?
I forgot his first name was Greg. George, Greg, there's really only 1 letter difference. I think Charlton Guy called him George once or twice and I picked up on his name as being George. Personally, I like George Eide better than Greg Eide. More letters to work with you play those anagram name games.
Ah, yes... I seem to remember someone telling me you liked playing with words (anagrams). Thx for the response.

Btw... I can appreciate your desire to help bring clarity to Eide's story and, if possible, lend a hand at defining certain events that have taken place during the "Certification Age".

If there is opportunity to leverage resources in that regard, I would be willing to share research, either here or using another medium, to aid in discovery. In any event, the offer is on the table.

[AceVentura]

Here's a question for Ace:

What is this "angle trimming" that you've mentioned? I think I understand what it is, but why do people angle trim vs. trying to trim a whole edge and thus keep everything evened up. Is it an easier cut to make?

Another question:

How does having the book in hand allow you to spot trimming, vs. just comparing shape and size.

Good question. I addressed it once in a thread on what I call the "angle trim" that was yanked from one of the message boards.

An angle trim is nothing more than a PARTIALLY trimmed edge. Only PART, sometimes a small portion of the offending edge is trimmed to bring it into the perfect shape that you see on so many 9.6 CGC blue labels we all know and love.

Goonchild's experiment, another thread that was yanked at CGC, illustrated not only WHAT an "angle-partial trim is but how EASY it is to slide an angle trim by them with the Witching hour he paper-cutter sliced an elongated triangular piece off of on the lower right edge. Goonchild's is the PERFECT EXAMPLE of what I've meant when I use the term "angle-trim", except that his was on the right edge rather than the MOSTLY trimmed top and sometimes trimmed bottom edges.

An angle trim is a bisecting cut that doesn't cut the entire edge. It still leaves the edge with enough DISSYMMETRY to avoid suspicion (a RAZOR STRAIGHT edge is sure sign that it's been whacked and these books aren't manufactured with razor sharp, perfectly straight edges!) but can be used to "angle" off, sharpening those pesky corners that would hold it back a tick or two.

On some, Ewert got bolder and sliced the entire edge, like on the landmark FF, but even that was done at an angle, creating a more natural, "slightly miscut" look. Enough overhang was left to again avoid suspicions, but bear in mind, there's USUALLY more overhang on either the left OR right on edges because books usually aren't folded completely uniform.

It's that LARGER area of overhang that is noticed less when that is the portion that's whacked.

I first discovered this style of trim studying Ewert's offerings on Ebay, and then saw it AGAIN on many of the books offered by a major auction house (which was made SOOOOO easy to detect because they offered supersize, high illumination scans, and offering SO MANY of the SAME books, month after year, year after year, you could chart the changes that happened to each book, like Mastercheif did so well later on.

Books returned with higher grades that were cleaned and pressed, tweaked in many other ways, and yes... now angle trimmed.

Sometime later, several OTHER prominant Ebay sellers started offering CGC blue label angle trimmed books with almost the same consistancy of the Ewert's offerings.

I say sometime later I discovered the others only because at the time I picked up on what Ewert was doing, I was solely focusing on his books. As other books in this mold started to catch my eye, I noticed that there were others as well.

I don't know if it's an easier cut to make, but either one of two things has been consistantly proven:

1) CGC can't detect it all the time.

2) IF CGC can detect it, they were hoping that nobody else can.

If it's #2, they were wrong.. as I had proven upteen times.

Oh sure, who can't tell when a raw book is whacked when it's so small, it's still screaming.

What I'm talking about is subtle trim that is VERY hard to detect on a raw book. CGC can't pick it up. I don't think I could either. NOT consistantly.
Seriously, the way these books were cut, aftermarket angle-trim is as difficult to tell on a raw book as trying to figure out if a book looks pressed because it was stored with pressure on it, or flat-ironed.

BUT......... and this is a huge BUT... put the book in a slab, give me rails to focus on, a REFERENTIAL POINT, ALONGSIDE the edges, and I'll nail it everytime, from either a scan OR book in hand!

Some folks have a talent for visual detail. Ted Williams could count the rotations and seethe seams on an incoming baseball.

I just see these edges differently I guess than most and when you give me a perfectly straight inner well rail line against the book's edges, I can NAIL it! In essence, pull the book out of the slab and some of them will probably again become IMPOSSIBLE to tell angle trim on, for either CGC OR me, because they're RAW again.

[AceVentura]

I would think that if I had a stack of books to assess (and possibly shell out big bucks for), and I spotted some blatantly trimmed books, I'd start seeing suspicious shapes and angles all over the place.

But Golden age production cut allows for far less manufacturing tolerances compared to Silver age.

Stack ANY group of Silver age comics one on top of the other, even a stack of the SAME ISSUE. First off, not ONE of them is cut PERFECTLY square. They're all non-symmetrical to some degree. If you stacked 20 books, that wouldn't be HARDLY enough to find two cut EXACTLY to the same size and shape with the same edge configuration.

You'd have to go through 1000 books to find two ALMOST identical.

With GOLDEN age comics, this problem that would arise from COMPARATIVE observation is decitupled!!!

Direct comparative analysis is useless because there is NO MANUFACTURING CONSISTANCY.

[AceVentura]

It's unfortunate the thread was locked"

I thought it would disappear altogether and took precautions. I thought the thread so important, especially when coupled with MY posts over the years and private notes, that I bought a separate portable hard drive to store just that on! :)

With all the hubbub about "integrity of the hobby", "Full discosure", "Educating the masses" thrown around on the CGC forums, I'm VERY surprised that some of the members with such a vested interest in outing what's perceived as "disengenuous hobby behavoir detrimental to the hobby", and have gone through great lengths to start websites on various targets, haven't published that thread in it's entirety on a separate website!!

[AceVentura]

Before:

http://members.aol.com/comickeys/ebayads/Tomahawk139cgcTrimmed.jpg

Voila:

http://members.aol.com/comickeys/ebayads/Tomahawk139cgc92Trimmed1.jpg

For the naysayers, please note:

The book in the slab is most definitely the AFTER-trim version with the sliver missing.

[Red Hook]

...that wasn't Goonchild's experiment. It was The_Spirit's.

[AceVentura]

...that wasn't Goonchild's experiment. It was The_Spirit's.

Hey Red! I thought they were the same person. Who was "the_spirit" on Ebay? Which seller. It might be interesting to peruse scans of the books he's offered/is offering, or scans of past auctions if available.

I have thousands of scans of internet site offered CGC books in my "looks fishy" files saved from over the years, some of the "before" scans discovered later on in archived galleries which proved them out to be "changed". Some may be from his offerings, only I don't know his handle. The Witching Hour could have very well been more than just one isolated "experiment".

And forever what it's worth, count me in on the side of those that say you should NOT have been suspended for your well planned ruse.

Given the contributions you've made on the CGC forum over the years, the suspension was a disgrace. A huge slap in the face.

[evilsly]

The Spirit was 'Dad and Son' over on the CGC forums

Goonchild was just a poor multi personality shill with ADD

[Red Hook]

Uh, no. Very very different.

GC took a pair of scissors to a book CGC returned to him with an overhang, and resubbed it. He got a mistakenly blue-labeled book back with trimming noted on the label, and tried to sell it as "unrestored" on Ebay. When Borock asked him to end the auction, and let CGC correct the label-color mistake, he basically thumbed his nose at them.

The Spirit is a totally different individual.

[The Charlton Guy]

...

Goonchild was just a poor multi personality shill with ADD...

Lol...

And the way things are going? He'll probably show up here any minute.

Welcome Evilsly! #hello#

[AceVentura]

Is there an unabridged list of all 71 books presented to GREG? Are there any pre-slab scans available on ANY of them aside from the Det 27?? Has the Det 27 indeed been slabbed (I've heard it both ways now, yes and no).

[MasterChief]

I have thousands of scans of internet site offered CGC books in my "looks fishy" files saved from over the years, some of the "before" scans discovered later on in archived galleries which proved them out to be "changed".
Well now, those catalogued scans might prove to be quite useful. I have been looking for one book in particular that may have been worked over real good. Might I ask where you captured the imagery from (website names)?

[novice]

But Golden age production cut allows for far less manufacturing tolerances compared to Silver age.

Stack ANY group of Silver age comics one on top of the other, even a stack of the SAME ISSUE. First off, not ONE of them is cut PERFECTLY square. They're all non-symmetrical to some degree. If you stacked 20 books, that wouldn't be HARDLY enough to find two cut EXACTLY to the same size and shape with the same edge configuration.

You'd have to go through 1000 books to find two ALMOST identical.

With GOLDEN age comics, this problem that would arise from COMPARATIVE observation is decitupled!!!

Direct comparative analysis is useless because there is NO MANUFACTURING CONSISTANCY.


A fascinating couple of posts.

Do some books lend themselves to trimming better than others? Are we simply trying to square off the book with micro cutting to arrive at the "high grade copy"? What is the possibility of an error in the slicing process? I remember asking whether an Action 1 could ever have "cosmetic surgery" and most said the risks of damage was too great?

[AceVentura]

Well now, those catalogued scans might prove to be quite useful. I have been looking for one book in particular that may have been worked over real good. Might I ask were you captured the imagery from (website names)?

For the most part, where you can STILL access scans in a PERMANENT AUCTION ARCHIVE on books that were sold/auctioned/offered from 2001 and up. That's the #1 reference for studying old scans of books from days gone by. The Heritage Permanent Auction Archives.

You can see the same books reauctioned sometimes at 3 month intervals, each time bumped up in grade, half the time with improvements made by comparing scans. Sometimes the book is like a claiming trotter! Bumping up in grade over and over again, 6.0 to 7.0, to 7.5, to 9.0, to 9.2 and some of those without an visible improvement from the starting rung.

[MasterChief]

For the most part, where you can STILL access scans in a PERMANENT AUCTION ARCHIVE on books that were sold/auctioned/offered from 2001 and up. That's the #1 reference for studying old scans of books from days gone by. The Heritage Permanent Auction Archives.

You can see the same books reauctioned sometimes at 3 month intervals, each time bumped up in grade, half the time with improvements made by comparing scans. Sometimes the book is like a claiming trotter! Bumping up in grade over and over again, 6.0 to 7.0, to 7.5, to 9.0, to 9.2 and some of those without an visible improvement from the starting rung.
Oh yes, I'm quite aware of that...

Perhaps I was under the wrong impression but I took you to mean that you had gathered CGC scans (old labels) from sites such ComicLink (before its makeover) or some of the other internet auction/selling venues that may/or may not be in business today. :(

[AceVentura]

A fascinating couple of posts.

Do some books lend themselves to trimming better than others? Are we simply trying to square off the book with micro cutting to arrive at the "high grade copy"? What is the possibility of an error in the slicing process? I remember asking whether an Action 1 could ever have "cosmetic surgery" and most said the risks of damage was too great?

The possibility of error always exists. The better you are at any craft, the less the potential for error. Proper indentification BEFOREHAND of books that would lend well to this, as well as identifying books that may not survive the process as beautifully as others would determine which books to pick for this process and which to avoid that have a lower success rate potential.

Sometimes even the best of the best screw up. Look at JPs Spiderman 1 CGC 9.6 years ago with the exploded, disintegrating lower spine corner.

It was pressed and that corner unraveled like a cheap suit! CGC stepped in with a 9.6 label on an 8.5 book with a botched, disintegrated corner and saved the day.

And well they should have. The day CGC planned their business MO was like the day Congress signed the Declaration of Independence. Halperin, JP, Manning, the Hughes', and a few other key founding fathers were the Washingtons, Adams', Jefferson', and Ben Franklins of the organization. All dealers themselves. A grading service set up by coin dealersto benefit coin dealers crossing over.

It's always been that way. There's not one grading service in existance that isn't dealer owned and operated, slabbing the merchandise of owners and associates.

That's the ONLY way that a grading service is more profitable than buying and selling.

HOW many years did CGC supposedly operate in the RED???? 5 to 7 or something like that? With advertising and all the other massive expenses, the ONLY was a grading service could possibly be profitable is by the benefits of having a label machine nearby to correct and amend, as Bob Ross would say, all those "happy accidents".

[AceVentura]

Oh yes, I'm quite aware of that...

Perhaps I was under the wrong impression but I took you to mean that you had gathered CGC scans (old labels) from sites such ComicLink (before its makeover) or some of the other internet auction/selling venues that may/or may not be in business today. :(

Yes, MANY other sites too, but the great thing about the Heritage archives is that TODAY, you can always take a trip down memory lane where on other sites, scans from times past have LONG disappeared, except for into MY files when questionable.

The Heritage scans in themselves are a clear testimony, once the trail of a particular book is plotted as it undergoes changes and/or JUST grade increases, of EXACTLY what the relationship truly is in this hobby between auction house and grading service.

But this is nothing new at all. Coin dealers have done this since the early 80s.

Alan Hager with Accugrade was the first one to think of this grading service ruse. He ran Alan Hager sales (Accucard or soemthing like that) and his WIFE was the head of the grading service (Accugrade). Everything Hager sold was Accugraded!

Then a year later Halperin and Ivey started NCI coin grading and was later fined 1.2 million dollars by the FTC for impropreoties related to grading that every other grading since has done.

[novice]

The possibility of error always exists. The better you are at any craft, the less the potential for error. Proper indentification BEFOREHAND of books that would lend well to this, as well as identifying books that may not survive the process as beautifully as others would determine which books to pick for this process and which to avoid that have a lower success rate potential.

Sometimes even the best of the best screw up. Look at JPs Spiderman 1 CGC 9.6 years ago with the exploded, disintegrating lower spine corner.

It was pressed and that corner unraveled like a cheap suit! CGC stepped in with a 9.6 label on an 8.5 book with a botched, disintegrated corner and saved the day.

And well they should have. The day CGC planned their business MO was like the day Congress signed the Declaration of Independence. Halperin, JP, Manning, the Hughes', and a few other key founding fathers were the Washingtons, Adams', Jefferson', and Ben Franklins of the organization. All dealers themselves. A grading service set up by coin dealersto benefit coin dealers crossing over.

It's always been that way. There's not one grading service in existance that isn't dealer owned and operated, slabbing the merchandise of owners and associates.

That's the ONLY way that a grading service is more profitable than buying and selling.

I look foward to the day that we see more AF 15's in 9.4 than Vg's. :D

[novice]

Yes, MANY other sites too, but the great thing about the Heritage archives is that TODAY, you can always take a trip down memory lane where on other sites, scans from times past have LONG disappeared, except for into MY files when questionable.


Could you possibly estimate the percentage of books you wondered about when going through the Heritage scans? Meaning, do you suspect that 1 out of 1000 books worked on? I never believed many were touched. I always thought that if one was going to go through the effort of trimming, one should expect a sizeable return.

[AceVentura]

Could you possibly estimate the percentage of books you wondered about when going through the Heritage scans? Meaning, do you suspect that 1 out of 1000 books worked on? I never believed many were touched. I always thought that if one was going to go through the effort of trimming, one should expect a sizeable return.

FAR FAR more than 1 out of 1000 Golden and SIlver age books have been tweaked in some way. Logarhythmically increasing as the value of the book rises along with the grade.

Don't forget, CGC offered a Blue label resto service secretly for a select few for YEARS and Heritage had their in house restoman working all the magic on THEIR books.

On 9.2s and up, a very CONSERVATIVE estimate would be 1 out of 10, maybe as high as 1 out of 5 books being TWEAKED in some way. On 9.4s and up, could be as high as 50/50!!!!!

$5000 and up books, could be as high as 1 out of 5 OR MORE and on $25,000 and up books, again, might be as high as 50/50. The greater the potential to maximize profits and the more to gain by doing so is an open invitation most can't refuse, especially when enabled by a grading service.

If the same tweak can turn a $25 book into a $50 book, THINK how tempting it is to turn a $25K book into a $50K one with a minor adjustment.

[novice]

FAR FAR more than 1 out of 1000 Golden and SIlver age books have been tweaked in some way. Logarhythmically increasing as the value of the book rises along with the grade.

Don't forget, CGC offered a Blue label resto service secretly for a select few for YEARS and Heritage had their in house restoman working all the magic on THEIR books.

On 9.2s and up, a very CONSERVATIVE estimate would be 1 out of 10, maybe as high as 1 out of 5 books being TWEAKED in some way. On 9.4s and up, could be as high as 50/50!!!!!

$5000 and up books, could be as high as 1 out of 5 OR MORE and on $25,000 and up books, again, might be as high as 50/50. The greater the potential to maximize profits and the more to gain by doing so is an open invitation most can't refuse, especially when enabled by a grading service.

If the same tweak can turn a $25 book into a $50 book, THINK how tempting it is to turn a $25K book into a $50K one with a minor adjustment.

If true, Then is CGc basically at the mercy of the minipulators? Based on the above, all they could do is to stay in damage control minimizing the perception that restored books are passing into blue labels.

If one accepts the premise then the only difference between the blue label and the purple label is as follows:

Purple label - Apparently retored.
Blue label -Less apparently restored.

[Hoss]

Welcome to the Corral, evilsly!

[AceVentura]

If true, Then is CGc basically at the mercy of the minipulators? Based on the above, all they could do is to stay in damage control minimizing the perception that restored books are passing into blue labels.

If one accepts the premise then the only difference between the blue label and the purple label is as follows:

Purple label - Apparently retored.
Blue label -Less apparently restored.

That's correct. Stated from Day 1 on the reverse of the label, the only two things CGC guanteed was/is:

"CGC guarantees this comic to be genuine and inspected by a minimum of three graders". End of story. Those are the only two guarantees made on the back of the label and they go on to state that their's is only an OPINION, their findings a "best effort made in good faith", but neither the resto check nor the grade GUARANTEED.

The guaranty in CGC guaranty co. is specifically addressed by CGC in the text of the label.

It's guaranteed to be genuine and looked at by three graders. THAT, is the precise GUARANTEE!

Anyone in the world can make the same guarantee. That it's a comic and they looked at it. But CGC gets PAID for that guarantee.

[mordo]

Whatever happened to Greg Eide? I thought he was on the verge of writing his long-promised expose.

Hi Ace. Welcome back, albeit for a little while.

[The Charlton Guy]

Amazingly silent for the last 24 hours.

I can't figure it out for the life of me.

Here's the very best and possibly the only opportunity you are going to have to publicly make your case Mr. Eide. And in front of a very interested and informed populace.

Don't blow it now.

[JohnT]

Before:

http://members.aol.com/comickeys/ebayads/Tomahawk139cgcTrimmed.jpg

Voila:

http://members.aol.com/comickeys/ebayads/Tomahawk139cgc92Trimmed1.jpg

For the naysayers, please note:

The book in the slab is most definitely the AFTER-trim version with the sliver missing.

Wouldn't this kind of trimming be fairly easy to spot if you put the book up against a T-square and a background grid--similar to a book in a CGC slab with its rails, but easier to manipulate and study?

The Tomahawk looks trimmed in the slab. The lower part of the book is farther from the rail than the upper half.

(On the Tomahawk, if you look at the sliver of paper, at the very top, why doesn't the black circle that is on the book extend onto the sliver?)

[Burntboy]

lot's of fascinating stuff here.............not sure who the heck Ace is but he's one interesting SOB...............

and here's hoping that Greg comes back before Ace leaves and has something concrete to add.

and welcome to all of the CGC board members that have decided to take a peek here and follow this saga through to it's conclusion, however satisfying (or not).

Hi Brad!!!:)

[JohnT]

Let's get back on track here. Ace Ventura, what do you know about the Tec 27 sale, if anything? #popcorn#

[The Charlton Guy]

Here's a bump for one of Mr. Eides more significant posts for those of you newbies who haven't had the time or inclination to dig:


With a mind to the fragility of life and the impermanence of all things, allow me to digress from my planned post. My evening with Danny will resume at a future date.

Questions! Questions! Questions!
A surfeit of questions and a dearth of answers .

1. Many questions can be answered by the parties involved. Problem is, even a single simple truthful answer by any one of the involved parties, will create a black hole that will not only suck in all of the conspirators, from DD to the top, but will forever change the face of our hobby. Well, maybe not forever, but for however long it takes for people to forget the recent past: a period of time that grows frighteningly shorter day by day.

The involved parties have chosen the conspiracy of silence and the repression of free speech as their best weapons against the truth. Their attacks on me will continue to be illogical and impotent and ultimately they will fall back on the excuse that, they did what they did for the "good of the hobby." Such a wonderful Hitlerian big lie that there will be many who will buy it. CGC employees, Hi Dena and Architect, are practicing their goose step as we speak. Hey guys, you banned me for merely affirming what Near Mint Jeff figured out. Check the record. Why not ban Near Mint?

Welcome to the new world order: MONEY is everything. The distant runner up to money is your drugs, alcohol and addictions: the things you use as a band aide to assuage the pain and guilt you feel for the loss of your humanity. In the case of fanboys, the addiction is comics.

2. My investigation has led me to a variety of people. Many of those people have given me information with the expectation that their names will not be given. I did not ask or even expect the two people who came forward on the CGC boards to speak up for me. I thank them for that. I am the sole front man and I will not openly or publicly disclose those who have assisted but want to remain anonymous.

3. Protection is the keyword of these three points. 1. Protection of the lie. 2. Protection of the sources. 3. My self protection. There are those who have cringed and run from what I am doing. "Why would you do this? What do you have to gain? You are not out any money! Leave well enough alone! You can not go up against these people! Nobody really cares! Do you know how many people you are going to hurt? It's Chinatown!" There are cards in my hand that I hold close to my chest. It is possible that they may never be revealed. I expect that I will soon be hearing from lawyers hell bent on my destruction. Having survived about 40 years in the business world, I have been there/done that more than a handful of times and been bloodied but never bowed. Discovery and depositions cut both ways. I prefer to be the defendant rather than the plaintiff and once you open that door, all hell will break loose on the federal level and the conspirators can not afford that investigation.

With that caveat on questions that will be answered, let me get back to digging my own grave.

Todd, met and dealt with Matt (Danny Dupcak) between 9/29/07 and 10/06/07.

Between 9/29/07 and 10/06/07 Todd visited David J. Anderson with all 71 books. Todd's deal with Matt was $150,000 for the Tec #27 and $100,000 for the other 70.

David assumed the Tec to be trim free because of the siamese page. Dave has had some past problems with disclosing known resto to a buyer.

Dave offered Todd $125,000 for the Tec #27 which Todd turned down.

Dave purchased the other 70 books from Todd for $100,000 plus a $2,000 finder fee.

Dave and Steve Geppi work hand in hand.

On 10/7/07 the Tec #27 was in Todd's possession and a respected dealer replied "Looks a little small to me."

When Todd announced his acquisition of the Tec #27 on 10/09/07, the other 70 Dupcak books were now owned by Geppi and were in his safe in Baltimore.

Todd, may or may not have known that the seller was Dupcak prior to 10/13.

On 10/13 Todd was informed that the seller was Danny (ComicKeys) Dupcak and did not ask any questions of the informant.

Steve Geppi was informed on 11/14/07 that the books came from Dupcak.

By 11/14/07 the 70 books were en route to Heritage/Halperin.

Heritage received the books and sent them to Matt Nelson to do his thing on them and to check for resto.

Matt sent them on to CGC/Steve Borock.

Ten of the 70 books appeared in blue labels in the February Heritage auction and two appeared in the March auction.

Per the list(s) I have provided, those books ranged from severely trimmed to partially trimmed to possible ringers. They were all blue labeled. There are 58 of the 71 books to still be accounted for.

Todd claims he is still in touch with the seller and from other evidence in my possession, I believe this to be true. Careful Todd, someone close to you is telling tales. Is it John T.? Josh? Maybe it's the higher ups. You are low man on the totem pole. Who do you think is going to take the fall when this whole thing finally blows up? You are not powerless to save yourself. Though your restored Tec #27 might only be worth $50,000, its' invaluable to your future. Care to comment on "Don't believe everything you read in the news. They have missed a lot of facts."

One way or the other, the truth is going to come out. Don't fear the higher ups alone. Remember, this is Danny Dupcak's revenge and there is no telling if and when, he might blow the whistle.

Now if you will excuse me, I need to send Steve my $75 to become a museum retailer affiliate member.

Greg Eide , Eide's Entertainment , 1121 Penn Ave , Pittsburgh , PA. 15222

[The Charlton Guy]

And this one regarding "An Afternoon With Matt & Stacy":


9/29/07 an "afternoon" with "Matt and Stacy" continued.

At 1PM Matt presented the 71 unbagged comics to my manager in a non-comic box with packing material buffering the two piles of comics and an Overstreet Price Guide #37 on top. My manager diligently graded the comics appearing on the page begining with Secrets of the Invisible Clan and down to Movie Comics #1.

I showed up at 2:15 PM and after going through various sales receipts for the day, sat down and looked through the 71 books to make a general assessment. The books ranged in condition anywhere from apparent 2.0 up to apparent 8.0 with most in the range of apparent 6.0. A good many of the titles were from 1938 and 1939 and then jumped to 1944. I considered the condition unusually high for an "attic" find. The fact that all the books were flat, clean and consistently glossy despite the varying conditions, seemed very strange to me. The range of the page quality also appeared odd. Seemed more like a group of books cobbled together over a period of time rather than a 00 collection bought off newsstands and preserved together for over 60 years.

Matt and Stacy were not the least bit talkative. Other than that they were "from West VA" and that Matt was "familiar" with Eide's and they had "recently" found the 71 books in the attic of Matt's great grandfather, they had given my manager no other info.

I stated that the comics were unusually clean and well preserved for being in an attic for over 60 years. I stated that even items locked in trunks in attics for over 60 years tend to come with a film of dust. Matt had no comment. I asked him who owned the books and he said his great grandfather born in 1906. I did the math and said that would mean he started buying these comics when he was 32 which struck me as odd. Matt said "Yeah he was into a lot of different things."

I asked what he wanted for the lot and he shrugged and gave no answer. I asked if this was all the books they had and he gave some unintelligible story about two halves of a collection, they were apart, now they're back together, no answer to if there were more but, he did have an Action #1 that he thinks he sold for $10,000 in Pittsburgh at a convention at Monroeville Mall years ago. That con was over 25 years ago and he could not remember who he sold it to. I asked if he knew Steve Geppi and he responded no and did not ask who's Steve Geppi? He went off on a tangent talking about a mother needing am operation and how he met Stacy the only good thing in his life. He tried to make a show of a relationship with Stacy but there was nothing demonstrated by either of them during their time in my store that would lead me to believe that their "relationship" wasn't part of a con job.

My manager showed me two or three very thin 10" strips of paper inside the Daredevil #42 and asked what's this? I said that it must have been trimmings from when the book was originally printed and told him to just put them back in the book.

My manager handed me the Action #7 and asked what do you think? I observed all the transfer/rub off on the front cover and followed it down to the right bottom quadrant; big circle transfer from the back cover of a magazine that reads "Lucky Strike" in mirror reverse. I commented that with all that transfer and from my experience with CGC, that that book would not receive much better than a 6.0. We agreed on a generous 6.5. A 7.0 on that book would be a surprise and a 8.0 would be nothing short of a miracle.

My manager handed me the Adventures to grade while he did the 4 Actions. On the work "copies" sent to Metropolis and previously posted, all entered info was by my manager. On the original copies, not yet presented there are notes in my handwriting added later that day and a couple days later. I graded the Adventure #81 and then looked at the #76. In the cameo top left corner, Hourman appears to have two black eyes. I wondered if this was this was a printing defect or if someone had colored in the eyes or added a mask. I had never seen this on any Adventures that I had owned or in the Gerber listings on any Adventures. I checked the front inside of the cover to see if anything had transferred to the inside. Matt took the book from my hands, scrutinized the cover closely and then checked the inside and proclaimed "No that's just a printing defect."

After grading the Adventure #76, I had a pile of 11 Adventures from 24-41. The size and cut of those 11 was unnatural. All had dead on cut edges/covers, sharp corners and were the exact same size. I stood one up beside the Adventure #76 and showed it to my manager. We both said "It's TRIMMED!" At that point, Stacy who had only uttered one other statement in front of me, spoke up and said "WHAT'S TRIMMED?" Before my manager or I could speak, Matt said "That's when someone takes a collectible and they cut the edges off to make the item appear to be better than it was so they can get more money for it. I hate when people do that!"

After about 15 seconds of stunned silence, my manager and I went about checking all the DC's for trim. My manager rechecked the 4 Actions he had just done and determined that 2 of the 4 were trimmed. I agreed. The #11 was severely trimmed but, though I agree the #7 was trimmed, I do not agree that it was severely trimmed. You can see where my manager regraded the Actions and the Movie Comics. Everything after the Adventure #76 was scrutinized for trim on initial grading.

We began sorting the books into piles of trimmed and not trimmed. Matt who was sullen from the get go was now even more sullen. "No way." he said "No way, these books have been in an attic for 60 years, nobody touched them." That story changed later to "Every time I get something good, something has to come along and spoil it." We said take it easy, even though there were trimmed books they were still valuable and we would like to finish the evaluation.

Like the 11 small Adventures, there were 9 small Detectives and 2 small More Funs. The trimming on the majority of the remaining DC's, including the Tec #27, was more subtle and less extensive. My manager spent a total of 3 hours examining the books. I spent a total of an hour and a half. Once we were done, Matt proclaimed he wanted $200,000 for the Tec #27 and $200,000 for the other 70 books. We replied being that half of the books were trimmed, the retail on the books would not be more than $100,000. We stated that trimmed, the Tec #27 was worth about $50,000 but if we were wrong, and we knew we were not, the book could be worth as much as $200,000. We explained that the book needed to be sent to CGC to verify whether it was trimmed. Matt said "I can sell it on eBay." We replied that unless you were a known dealer and knew how to grade or had the the book certified, you would not get a fair price for it on eBay. We explained CGC to him, said it would cost $1,000 to grade it but then, if it was not trimmed, he could easily get $150,000 for it. We handed him a CGC form.

Matt purchased the GA mylars and boards that we recomended, packed up his books and left at 4PM. Matt left the CGC form on the desk.

To be continued.

I hope you will continue Mr. Eide.

[novice]

And this one regarding "An Afternoon With Matt & Stacy":



I hope you will continue Mr. Eide.

We all hope he does.

To paraphrase Clint Eastwood :

With Ace Ventura on one side and GReg Eide on the other and we're in the middle? Let's get out of here. Too dangerous.

[Lazyboy]

lot's of fascinating stuff here.............not sure who the heck Ace is but he's one interesting SOB...............

:confused: He has stated his identity multiple times here at the Corral, but even disregarding that, isn't it obvious that he is comic-keys?

[Lazyboy]

Hey Red! I thought they were the same person. Who was "the_spirit" on Ebay? Which seller. It might be interesting to peruse scans of the books he's offered/is offering, or scans of past auctions if available.

I have thousands of scans of internet site offered CGC books in my "looks fishy" files saved from over the years, some of the "before" scans discovered later on in archived galleries which proved them out to be "changed". Some may be from his offerings, only I don't know his handle. The Witching Hour could have very well been more than just one isolated "experiment".

And forever what it's worth, count me in on the side of those that say you should NOT have been suspended for your well planned ruse.

Given the contributions you've made on the CGC forum over the years, the suspension was a disgrace. A huge slap in the face.

-was dadandsoncomics on eBay
-only one trimmed Blue-labeled comic (direct from the source)

[AceVentura]

Let's get back on track here. Ace Ventura, what do you know about the Tec 27 sale, if anything? #popcorn#

Unfortunately, not a thing. I still don't even know the complete list of 71 books the Det. 27 was included within.

I do remember commenting on the scans I saw of the Det 27 posted on the message boards. I commented on some hot spots where the POSSIBILITY of different resto COULD be located, but summed up with, "based on the scans alone (which is all I had to go one), my inclinations were innocent".

Greg seized on a few of my observations about what COULD have been trouble spots where resto MAY be located and ran with the ball down the field in the wrong direction.

IMO, although there was an erasure mark, it seems inconceivable that someone would have worked on that book in ANY way and NOT had the dust shadowed area cleaned off (it LOOKS removable.. more like pure dirt/dust than classic paper toning where the paper has been darkened), or the siames page remnants cut back plum.

There's ALOT of blue label Golden age books with a heck of alot more done to them than just that, without ANY notations on their labels.

The vibe of the book in that scan, on a whole, was CLEAN!

[AceVentura]

lot's of fascinating stuff here.............not sure who the heck Ace is but he's one interesting SOB...............

and here's hoping that Greg comes back before Ace leaves and has something concrete to add.

and welcome to all of the CGC board members that have decided to take a peek here and follow this saga through to it's conclusion, however satisfying (or not).

Hi Brad!!!:)

Hey Harry!! It's Hammer. Your old nemesis, CK!! #woohoo#

[AceVentura]

We all hope he does.

To paraphrase Clint Eastwood :

With Ace Ventura on one side and GReg Eide on the other and we're in the middle? Let's get out of here. Too dangerous.

Certainly not the OK Corral. I'm not here to duel with Greg. I'm here to help him ORGANIZE his thoughts only because amongst all the ramblings based on nothing, he DID bring up some truths about the workings of this hobby that were VERY important, but the rambling is having a tendency to work against his VALID observations that ARE true, and cast EVERYTHING as nonsensical rantings to some, IMO.

If I can help him expand on his stated facts and make him realize what is completely off the wall, perhaps some of the nuggets he's hit dead on will shine through.
I have no reason to be against him. I'm on his side.

[mordo]

Unfortunately, not a thing. I still don't even know the complete list of 71 books the Det. 27 was included within.



Ace, this is Greg Eide's list copied from page 10 of this thread.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2530/sep2907pg1kr5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4162/sep2907pg2yl8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[AceVentura]

Thank you, Mordo.

I thought I had heard someone mention a MF 52 being in this collection. I don't see it anywhere on the list.

Also, WHY is there a memo to Vince here?? Aside from a "warning", did Greg plan on turning the purchase of this over to Vince if Vince was interested?

BTW, the list exhibits a slightly esoteric combination, but in no way untypical of what could be expected in an attic collection find of books from the 1938 to 1948 range, about the average span of the average collection from that period.

There is a weight of Detective/Mystery theme books there.

It looks like what I might expect to see in an attic find.

It also appears that Greg had the toughest time possibly MISTAKING 1938 to 1940 books as trimmed that simply weren't. Books from THAT period have widely varied size tolerances. You'd be hard pressed to find any two of them from those years that would match in size and exact shape (squareness), picked from a pile at random and compared one atop the other.

Based on the list, and the YEARS of the books that Greg flagged as trimmed (1938 to 1940), unless I saw a photo identifying "Matt" as a known hobby entity, or "Matt's" ID, or a traceable liscence plate linked to a known hobby entity (meaning ANYONE identifiable in the hobby that this could possibly be trying to launder a batch of trimmed books off the beaten path), NOTHING I've read thusfar lends ANY creedence to this event as being anything other than what it was supposed to be.

A guy looking to sell a legitimate find. Todd was smart enough to take him up on it, Greg fumbled a very rare hobby opportunity and lost out.

Todd handled the disposition perfectly! My guess is that he sold the other 70 booksfor just about the price of the whole batch, thereby subsidizing his ENTIRE OUT OF POCKET COST on the Det 27. At this point, if he got a decent deal on the other 70 books, he's into the Det 27 FOR FREE!! Way to go, Todd, though personally, I would have held onto them, not wholesaled any, and retailed them ALL. You don't wholesale books like that to another dealer if you yourself are in the business of selling.

[JohnT]

Thank you, Mordo.

I thought I had heard someone mention a MF 52 being in this collection. I don't see it anywhere on the list.

Also, WHY is there a memo to Vince here?? Aside from a "warning", did Greg plan on turning the purchase of this over to Vince if Vince was interested?

BTW, the list exhibits a slightly esoteric combination, but in no way untypical of what could be expected in an attic collection find of books from the 1938 to 1948 range, about the average span of the average collection from that period.

There is a weight of Detective/Mystery theme books there.

It looks like what I might expect to see in an attic find.

It also appears that Greg had the toughest time possibly MISTAKING 1938 to 1940 books as trimmed that simply weren't. Books from THAT period have widely varied size tolerances. You'd be hard pressed to find any two of them from those years that would match in size and exact shape (squareness), picked from a pile at random and compared one atop the other.

Based on the list, and the YEARS of the books that Greg flagged as trimmed (1938 to 1940), unless I saw a photo identifying "Matt" as a known hobby entity, or "Matt's" ID, or a traceable liscence plate linked to a known hobby entity (meaning ANYONE identifiable in the hobby that this could possibly be trying to launder a batch of trimmed books off the beaten path), NOTHING I've read thusfar lends ANY creedence to this event as being anything other than what it was supposed to be.

A guy looking to sell a legitimate find. Todd was smart enough to take him up on it, Greg fumbled a very rare hobby opportunity and lost out.

Todd handled the disposition perfectly! My guess is that he sold the other 70 booksfor just about the price of the whole batch, thereby subsidizing his ENTIRE OUT OF POCKET COST on the Det 27. At this point, if he got a decent deal on the other 70 books, he's into the Det 27 FOR FREE!! Way to go, Todd, though personally, I would have held onto them, not wholesaled any, and retailed them ALL. You don't wholesale books like that to another dealer if you yourself are in the business of selling.

Aren't you being a little quick to conclude that the attic story was on the up-and-up and none of the books was trimmed?

Greg's strongest evidence so far, in my mind (and assuming he's giving accurate information):

--Piece of trimmed paper found in one of the books
--Matt knew what trimming was, and generally acted suspiciously
--Greg, who does appear to be an experienced dealer in GA books, felt that some of the books were "severely" trimmed

I'd be interested in you reviewing Greg's specific comments regarding the 27, if you are so inclined. For example, what about the slightly curved appearance of the bottom edge of the book near the Siamese overhang.

[AceVentura]

Aren't you being a little quick to conclude that the attic story was on the up-and-up and none of the books was trimmed?

Greg's strongest evidence so far, in my mind (and assuming he's giving accurate information):

--Piece of trimmed paper found in one of the books
--Matt knew what trimming was, and generally acted suspiciously
--Greg, who does appear to be an experienced dealer in GA books, felt that some of the books were "severely" trimmed

I'd be interested in you reviewing Greg's specific comments regarding the 27, if you are so inclined. For example, what about the slightly curved appearance of the bottom edge of the book near the Siamese overhang.

John, I think I was one of the first ones to offer an opinion based on the scans presented on the CGC forums.

While I did target what COULD be hot spots with a potential for resto, my overall concensus, best educated guess on the scans themselves were that it looked unrestored/unclipped, except for the check mark erasure.

I HAVE seen Golden age books that had strips of interior paper stock inside. When I have, they have been the full length of the pages (top to bottom) and approx. 1/2 inch to 1 inch in width, far too wide to have been hacked off the book.

Also, when I have seen this, the paper stock has NOT had any printing on it (blank paper).

If Greg said he found pieces of the cover inside, that is, cover stock with artwork from the cover sliced off the ends, that would be a DIFFERENT story. But I didn't interpret Greg's description of the paper he found to mean that. If he's talking about BLANK interior stock lengths of paper, though rare, I've seen it before on Golden age books.

Matt may have been acting like he always does. Greg may have projected and falsely interpreted ANY mannerisms as "nervous".

Anyone that's opened a guide and read the grading definitions, which I would assume ANYONE finding a Detective 27 would do before trying to sell it, would know about trimming. People read.

I don't say it's not completely impossible that everything is just the way Greg said it is, but looking at the chain of events, the scan of the Det 27, the list, the Action 7 in CGC blue label slab, and everything else surrounding this deal, IMO, the overwhelming odds are that it was just one of those rare occassions where someone comes to you with a monumental find and nothing more. Greg passed, Todd didn't.

[MasterChief]

Thank you, Mordo.

I thought I had heard someone mention a MF 52 being in this collection. I don't see it anywhere on the list.

More Fun #52 is third from top, second list.

(Gee... that's the same observation CG made when we were discussing the list on the NOD forum!) :eek:

[MasterChief]

btw, AceVentura/Comic-Keys... for someone who has claimed that he is not/not a GA specialist, you sure are coming off as one.

At least that's the way I read it.

[The Charlton Guy]

More Fun #52 is third from top, second list.

(Gee... that's the same observation CG made when we were discussing the list on the NOD forum!) :eek:


Hey, you know how it goes: great minds think aliiii......awwww...forget it.

[AceVentura]

Hey, you know how it goes: great minds think aliiii......awwww...forget it.

IMO, the STATE of the MF 52, is the KEY to understanding Greg's impressions of this collection. Along with the Action 7, aside from the Det 27, the MF 52 is the key to the TRUE value of this collection if untrimmed, unrestored. If so, it's DEFINITELY worth more than the Action 7 and the rarest comic in this collection.

Why do I say this? First off, as BUYERS tend to do while evaluating a collection, IMO Greg LOWBALLED the grades AND the values, trimmed or not. He puts the Action 7 at FN+ which later grades 8.0 and LOOKS every bit of 8.0 based on the scan.

He put the MF 52 at VG/FN, meaning that it was probably a 6.5 at the very least and maybe even a 7.0 or 7.5 candidate.

MF 52s ALWAYS look trimmed. First off, they're cut SMALLER than 53s without exception. ALOT smaller for some reason. IF it turns out that MF 52 grades blue, what happened is clear. Greg saw this and freaked out, projecting a trim-biased opinion on ALL of the comics. And that's quite a shame because a blue label MF 52 in 6.5 has GOT to be worth a minimum of $175K, certainly more than the Action 7. If it scores a 7.0 blue, it's a $200K+ book.

[AceVentura]

btw, AceVentura/Comic-Keys... for someone who has claimed that he is not/not a GA specialist, you sure are coming off as one.

At least that's the way I read it.

I do know a bit about a Golden age but Silver age is the area of my expertise.

[JohnT]

IMO, the STATE of the MF 52, is the KEY to understanding Greg's impressions of this collection. Along with the Action 7, aside from the Det 27, the MF 52 is the key to the TRUE value of this collection if untrimmed, unrestored. If so, it's DEFINITELY worth more than the Action 7 and the rarest comic in this collection.

Why do I say this? First off, as BUYERS tend to do while evaluating a collection, IMO Greg LOWBALLED the grades AND the values, trimmed or not. He puts the Action 7 at FN+ which later grades 8.0 and LOOKS every bit of 8.0 based on the scan.

He put the MF 52 at VG/FN, meaning that it was probably a 6.5 at the very least and maybe even a 7.0 or 7.5 candidate.

MF 52s ALWAYS look trimmed. First off, they're cut SMALLER than 53s without exception. ALOT smaller for some reason. IF it turns out that MF 52 grades blue, what happened is clear. Greg saw this and freaked out, projecting a trim-biased opinion on ALL of the comics. And that's quite a shame because a blue label MF 52 in 6.5 has GOT to be worth a minimum of $175K, certainly more than the Action 7. If it scores a 7.0 blue, it's a $200K+ book.

This is one very plausible explanation--that Greg started seeing ghosts and freaked out. Add to this the fact that a competitor bought the books and then gets himself on the national news for his once-in-a-lifetime find that Greg passed on, and then the books start coming back in blue labels. Then add the insult of people on the CGC boards starting to speculate about sour grapes and a vendetta--when he really does believe that some of the books were trimmed--well, it's easy to envision him going nuts.

HOWEVER:

He claims that Danny was the seller, which either makes this scenario suspect if it was him, OR if it wasn't makes Greg's "freaking out" more sinister (read vendetta). And his conclusion that CGC and high-end collectors are in on the cover-up would be libelous...

And one more HOWEVER:

The provenance of these books is very suspect, and what are the odds that a stack of 71 books from an attic has a tec 27 in it and a More Fun 52?

[The Charlton Guy]

Good post.



The provenance of these books is very suspect, and what are the odds that a stack of 71 books from an attic has a tec 27 in it and a More Fun 52?

Zero to none.

That's the only reason I'm still interested in this freak-out of a thread.

[MasterChief]

The provenance of these books is very suspect, and what are the odds that a stack of 71 books from an attic has a tec 27 in it and a More Fun 52?




Good post. Zero to none. That's the only reason I'm still interested in this freak-out of a thread.

Not so fast, CG.

Now that the question has been raised, I'm sure we'll get a (plausible?) reason in a few.

Stand by...

[The Charlton Guy]

Sorry to sound jaded.

It's just that I have lived with this Thread on a daily basis for over six months.

It is getting tedious for me, though I completely understand its significance and will hang in there to the bitter end or at least until some of the more weighty questions are answered.

It is particularly tedious for me when Mr. Eide refuses to answer direct questions and clarifications on issues that he implies he has the answers to.

Very tedious.

[AceVentura]

what are the odds that a stack of 71 books from an attic has a tec 27 in it and a More Fun 52?

Pretty good actually! There are OTHER Detectives (6 or 7??) on that list in this collection FROM THE SAME PERIOD. There are two other More Funs AND Adventure's from the same period.

Keep in mind that in the realm of major Golden age finds over the past 30 years, 71 books is a VERY small find, relatively. ROUTINELY, when a Det 27 or Action 1 was found in a collection, there were MANY other like books there. Action 2, 5, 9, 10-14, etc., as well as other Superhero books sometimes from MANY different publishers.

This 71 book collection is a mish mosh, that's for sure, BUT although the Det 27 and MF 52 were there, and also an Action 7, it's the ACTION 7 that SEEMS to be the misnomer here.

The original owner bought the Det 27 and MF 52 because they were DETECTIVE/MYSTERY theme books, like MANY of the others. NOT due to being Superhero books! That's a plausible reason WHY the Action 7 fits right in here too. Superman was NOT a regular COVER feature until much later so in Action 7, he's just ONE of MANY stories.

The fact that the OO had the EARLY Detectives, pre-Batman, lens creedence IMO to his buying the Det 27, not for a "Superhero's sake", but because it was just another Detective comic to him.

The titles and numbers of the 71 books raise no flags IMO. Looks quite normal for a NICE, small OO Golden age find and LUCKY AS HELL that three of these books were real BEASTS!!

Also, another fact bolstering this: Nobody in this hobby has come forward and said, "I KNOW that Action 7 or Det 27... I used to own it / xxx used to own it / etc., etc." Neither of the two big keys out of three have beed identified by ANYONE for a previous provenance and BOTH of those books have VERY identifiable features.

[AceVentura]

Sorry to sound jaded.

It's just that I have lived with this Thread on a daily basis for over six months.

It is getting tedious for me, though I completely understand its significance and will hang in there to the bitter end or at least until some of the more weighty questions are answered.

It is particularly tedious for me when Mr. Eide refuses to answer direct questions and clarifications on issues that he implies he has the answers to.

Very tedious.

This is so odd that NOW, he's MIA on the Forum. :confused: