The Buggsy Extortion thread [Archive]

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:44 PM

Posted by Ace immediately afterward:

Great idea! We're going to definitively tell from a scan if a comic is restored, right?

And while Turhan Mustafa is dredging up his basement, I'm going to dredge mine and be prepared to show all unabridged emails between Turhan, his brother Ilkin, and me. Including the extortion attempt emails that Turhan sent demanding an additional $150,000 for the AF#15, 6 months after his brother's chosen remedy (a complete refund) was made. That's right, 6 months after his brother Ilkin had returned the books, chosen his remedy, and been paid back, Turhan got involved and DEMANDED a $150,000 paydday, or he would go to the authorities, ruin me in the hobby, and call down other fire and brimstone upon me, over books that had already been completely refunded.

I'll bet you didn't know that, CG. I know you like wagering it seems. I'll bet you that yor pal Buggsy never confided in you ANY of that, right? Pesky little things like ALL the details and the other side of the story which were "complacently" undisclosed. To you, it was just another CK horror story and you were all too glad to "complacently" listen and accept without even doubting the validity of the story.

You see, Turhan is an extortionist. That's the only word I know for it. The fact that I ignored his extortion threats doesn't mean that he didn't try. The fact that it's me he attempted to extort from doesn't change the fact that it's a crime. There aren't any exclusionary clauses in the legal statutes stipulating that it's OK to commit crimes against CK because he's not well liked. Just like the fact that whose goldfish were killed doesn't mean that it's not a sin to kill animals to get back at somebody for something whether real or imagined.

I have all the emails complete with headers to back everything up. Wouldn't state it if I didn't. I also have paypal records to show that each and every penny that his brother Ilkin paid me for 4 comics that he returned was fully reimbursed and his claims of more refunds due on those 4 books, which were the only ones Ilkin purchased from me, are total bullshit.

His extortion demands for an additional $150,000 after the deal was fully reversed aren't bullshit, however. That part is very real and a real crime.

I might add that he and his brother never had the comics CGCed. I asked him to submit them. I begged him to submit them. He wouldn't do it. He returned them based on OldGuy's website.

Three of the four books that Ilkin returned were later BLUE LABELED BY CGC. The fourth of the four books I kept, for a rainy day.

Turhan is owed NOTHING. Turhan bought nothing. Ilkin is owed NOTHING, and paypal records prove it. All money received was returned. Every penny. Meanwhile, if you want to see some eye-opening emails that "poor, innocent" Buggsy wrote, just ask.

And you have to be nuts to think you can definitively detect restoraton from scans or grading companies would spring up running online grading services. All you can do is identify books with a high potential for having resto. And of course if you have before and after photos, that's a lock, but this isn't the case here.

Of course, CG's Detective 306 is in a class by itself. That'll get the alarms clanging on everyone's resto detector.

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:45 PM

Posted by Ace on 7/17/07:

Did you actually read my answer? All of it? I'll bet you didn't. The comics weren't CGCed. Ilkin and Mustafa decided they were altered without the aid of CGC. Whatever means they used to reach that determination, whether throwing chicken bones or a sound second opinion, it didn't matter. The net result was the same. Ilkin requested a return and got it. There was nothing wrong with them.

If he received the books and wasn't happy with them based on condition he would have had 10 days to return them. If he received altered books, he would have been able to return them at any time.

I've also had a case where someone bought a cheap comic, altered it, submitted it to CGC, and then used it against me. A set up. Before and after scans would clearly show that a piece of one edge went MIA between mailing it and getting it back.

You wouldn't think someone would do that, right? But what's the cost? You know you're getting your money back on the book. You're only out the postage and submission fee and for $50 you bought a wonderful horror story and CGC forum praise.

I have all these nice things saved for a rainy day.

What more can a seller do aside from not selling at all, or go with the books and babysit them?

If you read any of the posts before this one, there's mention of a CGC 9.6 taken on consignment that was cracked out at the consignor's behest to be auctioned as a raw 9.8 or 9.9. That buyer sent the book to Ciconne, who found WORK on it. I honored a return from the buyer and the consignor STIFFED me.

I have the scans of the book before being cracked out, the invoice dates, and scans of Sue's documents on the book.

Before we completely forget, did Turhan tell you about his $150,000 extortion attempt? Or did he forget about that?

Matter of fact, long after his brother and I reversed the deal, Turhan was still communicating with me about his $150,000 "bonus". We had dozens of emails and the last ones were from me. To him and his brother. An email that my lawyer drafted advising them of what crimes Turhan had committed. He broke off communication immediately after that.

I didn't hear from them since. But it's no surprise to hear that he still thinks I "owe him" a $150,000 "bonus". That's why I saved everything connected to this deal that was simply a return and refund until Turhan decided to go for the gold.

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:46 PM

Posted by CG afterward:

Interesting. It all sounds very convoluted and I grant you, it sounds like your transactions are not easy ones. I don't envy you that.

But perhaps this is because a good portion of your auctions are trimmed and color touched by you in advance of sale.

I won't bother to grill you on just what percentage of your books that may be, but if you are interested in revealing a rough percentage, that would be highly laudable.

After all, what you do (the trimming and restoration) is not illegal, and many would not even consider it immoral. In fact, you show considerable skill in your restoration and trimming technique. If I were you, and had such skills, I would likely take some considerable pride in it.

But I would disclose it. That's where the line is crossed. And you have crossed it consistently for years.

Why not come right out and say that "this comic has been restored/trimmed" and let the beauty of the book speak for itself?

Isn't it true that most high end collectors look for style and eye appeal over any semblance of nostalgia, "integrity" or authenticism anyway? I bet you would do nearly as well in your sales as you have done to date.

I know that you have come out and called out certain of your books as restored or trimmed, but in the same round of auctions are books that are obviously trimmed or otherwise manipulated that are touted as "Guaranteed Unrestored".

It makes you look like a blatent con artist.

And you know, I agree that you are not the only one out there doing it. And I agree that CGC to date has shown culpability and turned a blind eye to cronies in the past, and bottom line? I don't trust CGC either.

But the "everybody's doing it" routine will get you nowhere. Not as long as you continue to pump trimmed book after trimmed book into the market.

Because my biggest gripe with you is not regarding buyers who want a refund and have to go through weeks or months of hassle, it's not that you make a lot of money, it is partially because you are screwing up books that if left alone most people would die for, but it's not that crap, it's this FACT that bothers me the most, about you and non-disclosing trimmers like you (just to show I am not entirely singling you out):

It is the thought that the greater portion of your buyers are not aware that they are getting a trimmed or restored book at all. A month or two later? They get hit hard with bills. They need to make a student loan payment or something. The book changes hands. Maybe the book changes hands again. And thus becomes "anonymous". Or worse yet, the buyer has someone tell them something is amiss with the book, but turns around and unleashes it anyway and joins the ranks of your ilk. And this has likely ...

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:47 PM

Posted by CG afterward:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceVentura http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17076#post17076)

I'll bet you didn't know that, CG. I know you like wagering it seems. I'll bet you that yor pal Buggsy never confided in you ANY of that, right? Pesky little things like ALL the details and the other side of the story which were "complacently" undisclosed. To you, it was just another CK horror story and you were all too glad to "complacently" listen and accept without even doubting the validity of the story.

And yes, I did (and do) doubt the validity of the story. Thus my statement that I too smelled something "fishy". I know that there are two sides to every story, and I will certainly be very interested in hearing your side. I know a lot of people will. Thus this forum.

Actually, I don't like wagering much. I usually lose. But sometimes I score a point or two. Particularly on "Burger Time"! Right Hoss?
__________________

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:48 PM

Posted by Ciorac on 7/17/07:

Perhaps the "bonus" was thought of as punitive damages? One can certainly seek them in cases of fraud.

I don't know the facts of this case, so this is just conjecture.

However, I DO know that there is no excuse whatsoever for trimming a comic book (it is destroyed an no longer collectible in my opinion) or restoring a book in any way and not disclosing it. None. Whether you offer a refund or not is immaterial. When you perpetrate a fraudulent transaction and get caught, refunding the money is not laudable, it is simply to avoid prosecution I would wager.

Not disclosing work you performed on a book is fraud. Period. My assumption is that you hope the lion share of your "customers" (victims) don't discover your plot and you get to keep the ill gotten gains.

There is honest money to be made in the hobby, make some.

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:51 PM

Posted by Ace 7/17/07:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Charlton Guy http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17087#post17087)
Interesting. It all sounds very convoluted and I grant you, it sounds like your transactions are not easy ones. I don't envy you that.

But perhaps this is because a good portion of your auctions are trimmed and color touched by you in advance of sale.

A "good portion"? How can anyone that didn't parcipate in or have full knowledge of just how many books I've sold on and off ebay make a statement like that with any certainty? It's an assumption. And a wrong one.

Quote:
I won't bother to grill you on just what percentage of your books that may be, but if you are interested in revealing a rough percentage, that would be highly laudable.
Certainly no more than any other seller who consisitantly had dealt in mostly raw high grade silver age comics throughout the entire CGC age (2000 to present).

I never went through and added up all the comics that were returned. If I did, it would be a small percentage compared to the total number of transactions.
If you're never in the cockpit, you can't crash an airplane, right. Some sellers can claim to never have sold an altered raw book to anyone and had a problem. But if they've only dealt in graded books, that claim doesn't mean much, does it?

Quote:
After all, what you do (the trimming and restoration) is not illegal, and many would not even consider it immoral. In fact, you show considerable skill in your restoration and trimming technique. If I were you, and had such skills, I would likely take some considerable pride in it.
Another assumption. Has ANY book that I've ever sold been linked directly to me with before (untrimmed) and after (trimmed) scans? A la Ewert? Fuck no! Because that doesn't exist. I don't own restoration tools, I don't have restoration skills, trimming skills, or what have you, and I don't trim books.

This grew out of Fantazia, because people erroneously connect me with Fantazia. We're all the same person, right? Fantazia had a restoration service advertised in Overstreet. It was advertised at the behest of Cantie Brevard, who did the resto work contracted by Fantazia.

Three years ago on the CGC Forums, Cantie said, "that's not how it went". But the way I heard it, that was the deal. Cantie's restoration skills were negligible and he was botching comics that Fantazia was contracting for him through his Overstreet ad. I don't blame Cantie for wanting to put as much distance as he could between Fantazia and himself under the current climate when hate and accusations based on assumptions are in effect.

Quote:
But I would disclose it. That's where the line is crossed. And you have crossed it consistently for years.
You're kidding, right? The only lines crossed are in your projections. For years I auctioned RESTORED comics with that word emblazened boldly in the title and description. When I did, invariably, some CGC knucklehead would retort, "they must ALL be trimmed".

Quote:
Why not come right out and say that "this comic has been restored/trimmed" and let the beauty of the book speak for itself?
Right there you're contradicting yourself. Didn't you post on the CGC discussion boards and repost it in this thread that a trimmed book is worthless? It upsets your aesthetics, or something to that effect? When I see the work, I disclose it.

Quote:
Isn't it true that most high end collectors look for style and eye appeal over any semblance of nostalgia, "integrity" or authenticism anyway? I bet you would do nearly as well in your sales as you have done to date.
I've done real well WITHOUT cutting CGC in on the grading of my books all these years. Without basically making them a "partner". And any work on the books are disclosed to the best of my abilities.

Quote:
I know that you have come out and called out certain of your books as restored or trimmed, but in the same round of auctions are books that are obviously trimmed or otherwise manipulated that are touted as "Guaranteed Unrestored".

It makes you look like a blatent con artist.
Why is that? Why can't a disclosed restored book be offered in the same round of auctions as unrestored books? You mean they're ALL guilty because 1 or 2 raw restored books are offered with 25 to 50 unrestored raw books?

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:53 PM

Last post continues:

Is this true with raw and graded books as well? When I used to auction slabbed books in the same round as raw books, I'd get emails asking, "why didn't I CGC the raw ones too. Is something wrong with them?". I'd answer, "I don't belong to Collector's Society. I buy raw, I sell raw. I buy slabbed, I sell slabbed".

Quote:
And you know, I agree that you are not the only one out there doing it. And I agree that CGC to date has shown culpability and turned a blind eye to cronies in the past, and bottom line? I don't trust CGC either.

But the "everybody's doing it" routine will get you nowhere. Not as long as you continue to pump trimmed book after trimmed book into the market.
You're assuming again. I'm not "doing" anything other than identifying raw books and disclosing when I see it.

Quote:
Because my biggest gripe with you is not regarding buyers who want a refund and have to go through weeks or months of hassle, it's not that you make a lot of money, it is partially because you are screwing up books that if left alone most people would die for, but it's not that crap, it's this FACT that bothers me the most, about you and non-disclosing trimmers like you (just to show I am not entirely singling you out):
Nobody EVER went through weeks or months of hassling. And I'm not screwing with any books that people would die for. And again, you're calling me a trimmer without any proof whatsoever that I'm trimming books. When you have direct evidence of ME, trimming a book, pictures, movies, eye witness testimony, tools in my hand, paper shards under my shoes, a book that I bought untrimmed (a before scan), and sold later with undisclosed trim (an after scan of the same book), THEN, and only then can you call me a trimmer. Until then, it's slander, which I know you have penchant for doing.

Quote:
It is the thought that the greater portion of your buyers are not aware that they are getting a trimmed or restored book at all. A month or two later? They get hit hard with bills. They need to make a student loan payment or something. The book changes hands. Maybe the book changes hands again. And thus becomes "anonymous". Or worse yet, the buyer has someone tell them something is amiss with the book, but turns around and unleashes it anyway and joins the ranks of your ilk. And this has likely happened with book after book after book.
That happened to Nic Cage too several times, didn't it? In fact, every time a raw comic is sold, there is a chance that will happen. That's why seller's guarantee raw sales. Not all do, unfortunately.

Quote:
You talk about the horrorshow of finding out ten years down the road that 90% of high grade Gold and Silver books are trimmed or restored?
Yes they are. Not 90% but a good percentage of them.

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:53 PM

and continues:

Quote:
Well congratulations. You have certainly done your part. Haven't you?
Yes I have. Thanks for noticing. 3 years before MasterCheif started the Manufactured Gold thread that everyone hailed him as a genius for, I posted hundreds of examples of trimmed Silver age and altered golden age books on message boards. Not many took notice. And those that did "complacently" dismissed it as bullshit.

When I first pointed out Ewert's books, most "complacently" dismissed it as Bullshit.

When I pointed out that Heritage owned CGC, most "complacently" dismissed it as bullshit.

Should I keep going?

I pointed out that for decades, 75% of even the highest grade early Marvels had chips, pre-chips, and overflash micro-tears. Where the fuck were all of these super high grade 9.4 to 9.8 CGC early marvels coming from in CGC blue label slabs all of a sudden? In the 70s, 80s, and 90s NOBODY ever saw more than a handful of perfect early marvels with perfect overflash and edges smooth as glass. And noboby saw 9.6 early marvels that were so small that they fit into Modern age wells.

Yet suddenly, here they were, in CGC slabs. Dozens of them. Hundreds of them. Thousands of them. More and more every year. Usually offered by the same small handful of sellers that always seemed to be in the pictures with Borock in the center, everybody all smiling and shit. How on God's green Earth did the same handful of sellers get a hold of the same type of books of a quality that most never even saw ONE of in past decades?

I did do my part. Nobody listened to "crazy old Hammer".

Quote:
Again, I won't even try and pin you down on how many trimmed or touched books you have pumped out on the market. But I really do want to know and would be mighty impressed if you would share a rough figure with us all.
Not as many as you think. Not intentionally. No more than other sellers who have sold thousands of VF and better raw books.

I'm the one under a magnifying glass, they're not. How lucky for them.

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:55 PM

Posted by Ace on 7/17/07"

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciorac http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
(http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17089#post17089)
Perhaps the "bonus" was thought of as punitive damages? One can certainly seek them in cases of fraud.

No. Turhan was quite clear on his intent and punitive damages weren't mentioned. He was seeking "hush money". He also threatened to go to the police and tell the world that Richard Koos is Danny Dupcak if I didn't cough up $150,000 for him. How he would have proven that, I have no idea.

How could this be construed as punitive damages? There was no fraud and no determination of fraud made by any court. It was a pure extortion attempt. Would you like to see it? Just to be clear on this?

Quote:
I don't know the facts of this case, so this is just conjecture.

However, I DO know that there is no excuse whatsoever for trimming a comic book (it is destroyed an no longer collectible in my opinion) or restoring a book in any way and not disclosing it. None. Whether you offer a refund or not is immaterial. When you perpetrate a fraudulent transaction and get caught, refunding the money is not laudable, it is simply to avoid prosecution I would wager.
There is not excuse for trimming a book but in the past PROFESSIONAL restorers did it commonly as one of their procedures. So your saying that if ANY seller offers a raw comic that is later found to be trimmed that it's a deliberate act of fraud? Good luck making that stick in criminal court.

And you're right about one thing. Who wants to be prosecuted? You know of anybody who doesn't mind and will go out of theri way to make that happen? Nobody here is perpetrating deliberate fraud. Nobody is committing fraud. Money is refunded if something goes wrong with the item or doesn't like it. ALL sellers should do that. The ones that DON'T are perpetrating fraud. You know that.

Quote:
Not disclosing work you performed on a book is fraud. Period. My assumption is that you hope the lion share of your "customers" (victims) don't discover your plot and you get to keep the ill gotten gains.
There's no plot and the only thing that I always hope is that I'll wake up in the morning.

Quote:
There is honest money to be made in the hobby, make some.
:roll: I know. I'll only deal in CGC and PGX comics from now on so there can't possibly be a chance that any of them are cleaned, pressed, restructured, color-touched, or trimmed!
Last edited by AceVentura : 07-17-2007 at 03:31 AM.

The Charlton Guy

11-01-2007, 11:55 PM

Posted by CG afterward:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceVentura http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
(http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17076#post17076)

I'll bet you didn't know that, CG. I know you like wagering it seems. I'll bet you that yor pal Buggsy never confided in you ANY of that, right? Pesky little things like ALL the details and the other side of the story which were "complacently" undisclosed. To you, it was just another CK horror story and you were all too glad to "complacently" listen and accept without even doubting the validity of the story.

And yes, I did (and do) doubt the validity of the story. Thus my statement that I too smelled something "fishy". I know that there are two sides to every story, and I will certainly be very interested in hearing your side. I know a lot of people will. Thus this forum.

Actually, I don't like wagering much. I usually lose. But sometimes I score a point or two. Particularly on "Burger Time"! Right Hoss?
__________________

And yes, I still think that this deal sounds very fishy. From both sides.

And any "verdict" I might have is decidedly still in stasis until both sides of the story are heard. Not that what I think will make an iota of difference in the long run.

Hopefully Bugsy will chime back in and your debate/confrontation can contiue.

In the meantime, I don't see what purpose is served by re-posting all previous posts regarding this transaction gone wrong.

Go ahead if you want to, but I think it may serve a better purpose (for both of you) if you stick to new material and information.

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:57 PM

posted by Ace on 7/17/07:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Charlton Guy http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
(http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17095#post17095)
An excellent post.

You are doing a lot to dispel a lot of rumor and slander.

Maybe in your mind, because you're actually giving a guy a fair shake and listening to the yang that goes with the yin, but unfortunately in this hobby, CK has already been convicted with blade in hand, of every wrong-doing under the sun. I'm already tried, and convicted due to Old Guy's CGC backed site.

And you want to know something, before CK EVER sold one book on Ebay, CK was already tried and convicted. Just from BUYING. I'd get emails, "You're in Floral Park so you MUST be that fucking Dupcak". I'd get caller ID blocked phone calls with someone screaming, "Stop ripping off the hobby" at the top of their lungs. Meanwhile, I hadn't even sold a book yet on Ebay. :confused:

In fact, my entire first round of auctions, which included a CGC Marvel Comics #1 in G/VG blue, a Superman #2 in CGC VG/FN blue, a Mickey Mantle 1952 Topps card graded 8.0 by Pro., and about a dozen high powered raw comics and cards performed horribly. My bidders were getting spammed left and right, "that's Danny Dupcak, not Richard Koos", and the bid cancellations came faster than the new bids to replace them! Plus whoever DID win an auction didn't send payment.

I hadn't sold ANYTHING yet and had a 100-0 feedback from just buying. I had a big collection to deal and here I was getting maliciously shut out before I ever made my first sale!

Quote:
And as for the slander and downright name-calling I have partaken in, I do apologize, particularly for the "scum-bag" and similar comments. I do tend to go on, don't I? And I have been known to step on the wrong toes on more than one occasion, and am just as easily led into the trap of making someone out to be a boogey-man who at least stands a liklihood of being sincere (or at worst, oblivious).
Sometimes people feel more comfortable wiping their feet on someone if they're not allowed to speak up, address the issues, and reveal what you're NOT hearing, like good old Turhan's story which was missing 99% of the facts and details. People usually hear what they want to hear and have already drawn a foregone conclusion before you get to the word, "BUT....".

For all your name calling, finger pointing, and damage you've tried to cause me, I don't think you're the type that would rather the target of an attack remain mute. But alot of people don't have that gumption to give a guy a fair shake or recognize that he should have one.

This is truly rare in this hobby that you and Hoss have allowed me to answer to the numerous charges and misconceptions of the usual one sided, convoluted diatribes. And I'm grateful.

Quote:
And your track record in bringing to light all of the other scams and un-disclosed books and colusion and such and such is well known (or should be) and if you are to be applauded for anything, that is a hell of a place to start.
Doesn't matter to anyone. It's business as usual in the hobby. You know when it'll matter? If and when that 2nd erstwhile grading company enters the hobby and cross submission becomes a part of the financial gain game plan! But it won't happen soon. Heritage and their sister corp. CGC have a stranglehold on the hobby. A financial and political stranglehold.

Quote:
But man, I just plain can't believe that you don't own any restoration tools and don't know how to use them. How could I possibly know that for certain? I can't. I just have a very, very, very hard time believing that.
If I had the tools I'm sure I'd figure out how to use them. Whther or not I have the skill to use them effectively is doubtful. There's threads and pages all over the internet on which tools to get and how to use them. I'm just all thumbs when it comes to art and crafts and I'm sure a high dgree of manual dexterity is necessary for successful comic restoration. Anyone can pick up a rod and reel and cast a line in the water but that doesn't necessarily make them a fisherman.

Quote:
Unless you are spending your time intentionally going out to find trimmed books for resale, I have seen enough of your high-res scans to know that there WAS book after book after book that showed corners and edges that were just WAY too good to be true. And I'm not talking just a few here and there, I've been watching your auctions, and saving your scans for well over five years.
When you're intentionally trying to buy the highest grade raw books that you can find, invariably, trimmed ones will find their way in and become a part of the equation. The same holds true for cleaned, pressed, and trimmed books in the highest grade CGC blue label slabs as possible. Then again, maybe it's the scanner. You're still going by scans, not the book in-hand. Even the pros who get paid for grading need the book in hand to do theri restoration check.

Quote:
I know, you DARE me to discern whether a book has been trimmed just from looking at a scan. Well, I'm no spring chicken. And I have seen my share of raging high grade books, the same SA and key books over and over at shops and shows all over the country, and I can tell you that I CAN tell if an edge or corner has been trimmed from looking at a high-res scan. This isn't rocket science, it's just a good pair of glasses and a lot of books under my belt.
Well I will say this. You had a bet going with Perry (who supposedly doesn't exist, although he sure didn't have a problem starting a corp. and getting his name on a PayPal account, right? You can do that if you don't exist?) on an FF#23 that you're sure is trimmed (from a scan) because you've got alot of books under your belt (BTW, how do you keep your pants up with all those books under your belt?).

I happen to know the origins of the FF#23 and I'd be willing to make a wager with you also on it, knowing that trimming is out of the question. I'm told that the buyer, who you have communicated with, has collected for 30+ years. Didn't he tell you that he's positive that it's not trimmed? Are you such a consummate expert that you're always right even when the buyer isn't the least bit concerned that it could possibly have been trimmed and has completely ruled it out based on all of the books under HIS belt? And when you've never seen the book up close in person? With all those books under your belt, where do you find room for those giant balls of yours? :D

Quote:
So if you don't want to admit to being an "Ace" at trimming books, then don't. If you want to continue to sell with your patented C-K method? Be my guest, I'm not stopping you. I'm just trying, in my own way, to bring to light the very same issues that you too seem to feel strongly about: That more and more comics are getting slashed and trashed for all time just to make a buck. And regardless of what laudable traits you want to pin on your chest, I still think you are a part of it.
WHO is continuing to sell with a patented C-K method? If you mean Robojo33, from where I sit, all I see is good product and a huge effort made to disclose any possible work when present. I see MANY CGC forum members who won books Not one, or two, but MANY. We'll soon see what type of methodogy is being employed when the submissions come back, right? Unless it's simply another case of guilt by association.

I've been told that the Avengers #52 was formerly a Ewert/CGC blue label book, but it wasn't included on the "possibly tainted" list, because it's from BEFORE his trimming period. The purchase was about three years old and can still be seen way back in Robojo33's buying feedback. I'm curious to see how that one pans out.

Hopefully the FF#23 will be submitted someday, as well as the Spiderman #33. Two books that you identified as "positively trimmed". I can't wait to see the results on those two.

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:59 PM

posted by Buggsy the Extortionist on 7/17:

I have lots to say but it will have to wait until this evening as im off to work. In the meantime can i ask Danny/Richard/Perry or whatever your new name is these days to talk abut this so-called fraud that im attempting. By that i mean can he put up the e-mail where i told him about a book that i had bought from a dealer that has some slight colour touch and does he think it would be too late if i sent it back for a refund. HE was the one that said not only should i ask for my money back BUT the dealer should also pay what they should be worth. I guess that an Amazing Fantasy #15 in NM must be worth $150,000 in todays market. After all you did sell one a few years earlier for $117,000. Now stick the e-mail up first, it shouldnt be too hard to find ive sent it to you enough times to let you know where im coming from but of course you choose to ignore it, and then everyone can see why we made this demand. You see i am going buy your OWN WORDS but of course you dont like it. You believe this dealer should give me the current value as if the book was unrestored but when i ask you for the same thing suddenly it doesnt apply to you. Now i want you to stick it up first because there is no way i believe you would put an unedited version up. Ill then stick the proper version up and then if anybody is undecided please contact Mark Zaid who also has a copy. A message to CG can i am having trouble loading the Guaranteed Unrestored Amazing Fantasy #15 that Danny sold Ilkin. Would you be able to try it fromthe e-mail i sent you.
thanks
Bugsy

AceVentura

11-01-2007, 11:59 PM

Posted by Ace afterward:

Why sure, Buggsy. How about some of these:

1) PTSIZE=10>Subj: Re: LEGAL ACTION 
Date: 7/7/06 6:10:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time 
From: Comic Keys 
To: turhan@tinyworld.co.uk 
CC: ilkin@lineone.net 
 
T, You leave me no room to even have a chance to give in to your sudden demands of a huge payment by today at 5PM UK time (not sure when that is by East coast time). You're demanding a multi-hundred thousand dollar sum of money as payment to keep you from enacting the threats you outlined if I don't give in an pay you this amount. An amount of money that I don't have and that was NOT part of the refund agreement, nor was promised in my sales guarantee at the time of their purchase or return. Even if I wanted to appease you in some way, you're not giving us any options or time for rectifying this. It's taken all I can do to raise the $38,000 necessary to complete Ilkin's agreed upon refund that I hope to finish within the week, but to demand another $100,000 to $150,000 beyond what he is owed by today, is not a possibility. You may as well be demanding 10 million dollars. It's an amount that I don't have and wouldn't know where to begin securing it. I'm here if we can discuss this. I PayPalled Ilkin $8,000 that cleared my account last evening, and there will be more this week, possibly every day, as funds clear my account, to be transferred directly to Ilkin, hopefully completing his agreed upon refund, the remedy he chose when he returned the books for refund, within a few days this week. As fast as I receive it, Ilkin will get it. I'm doing all that I can, trying to appease you and Ilkin, and I'm just asking you to please set aside your anger and the threats for now, and work with me on this so I can first finish squaring up with Ilkin and then we can take it from there. Is that at all possible? That's all I'm asking. Let me get Ilkin's agreed upon guaranteed refund squared away. Let me do that for him, and then if you still want to, there's always time for you to come at me heavy handed with demands and threats of ruination unless I pay you a large sum of money. Just, PLEASE, let me complete his refund much sooner than the August 31st deadline that he requested. You'll see. There will be money coming to him daily, as I receive it. There's $40,000 in and the balance is down to $30,000 currently on the two big books and that will be finished up very quickly. That, I can handle right now. Hundreds of thousands, I cannot. Thank you, T. 
 
Respectfully, Richard</HTML>

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:01 AM

Just read the whole freakin' page. All applicable in the ongoing Bugsy the Extortionisy saga:

http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1295&page=17

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:04 AM

more nonsense from Buggsy on 7/17/07:

Ive only got time for 1 post tonight so Danny stop putting up stupid scans and please do as i ask. You are very good at ignoring requests when you know it would be damaging. Off the top of my head you was asked by flyingdonut on the CGC boards to put up a scan of your medical certificate(yes folks Danny use to call himself DOCTOR Richard Koos. I'll put up the e-mails later) and you didnt do it. Then i think it was FFB on the STL boards that asked you for a 300? dpi scan to prove your scans were doctored(Oh is that what you meant by Doctor) but again you would provide one. There are lots more examples but Danny/Richard/Perry Stroud/Sam Mcloud/Girls Aloud or whatever his name is for tonight isnt stupid. If its not in his best interests he doesnt want to know. I am probably therefore wasting my time here but ill try again. Can you put up the e-mail that you sent me that i asked for yesterday. Ill give you a helping hand. The first line is something like:-

T, wether its 3 minutes, 3 years or 30 years old

Come on, come on its not difficult. Im not asking you to recite the Gettysburg address. Put the e-mail up so we can discuss it. Oh and by the way i cant be bothered to read everything you write its far too much waffle and lifes too short. I will say your synopsis is more like an Epilogue. I will give the correct version hopefully tomorrow.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:05 AM

Posted by Ace in rebuttal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsy http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17161#post17161)
Ive only got time for 1 post tonight so Danny stop putting up stupid scans and please do as i ask.

Danny didn't post anything or deal with you. Did you pay Danny for the books? Did Danny meet with you at some local pub to conduct the transaction? What stupid scans?

Quote:
You are very good at ignoring requests when you know it would be damaging.
What ignored requests? You mentioned emails. I posted them exactly as sent and received. Don't they match YOUR emials PRECISELY?

What other requests am I ignoring? I've answered all questions asked and given ALOT more, haven't I?

Quote:
Off the top of my head you was asked by flyingdonut on the CGC boards to put up a scan of your medical certificate
PURE bullshit. I didn't ask anybody to post medical certificates. I would have gladly posted anything I wanted posted myself.

Quote:
(yes folks Danny use to call himself DOCTOR Richard Koos. I'll put up the e-mails later) and you didnt do it.
Danny didn't call himself anything as far as I know.

Quote:
There are lots more examples but Danny/Richard/Perry Stroud/Sam Mcloud/Girls Aloud or whatever his name is for tonight isnt stupid.
Danny is ALL of these people? Are YOU Danny too?

Quote:
If its not in his best interests he doesnt want to know. I am probably therefore wasting my time here but ill try again.
Whose best interests? Danny, Perry, Mccloud, Girls Aloud, Snakes Alive, or ME?

Quote:
Can you put up the e-mail that you sent me that i asked for yesterday. Ill give you a helping hand. The first line is something like:-
I thought I put up enough emails to explain this whole mess lucidly. Do you want me to litter the thread and put up what will amount to about 20 forum pages worth of Ilkin, Turhan, and CK emails? Alot of them are repetitive. If you want to see them all, I don't mind. Maybe Hoss will mind wasting 20 pages of forum space when the 10 or so are a perfectly condensed version of every facet of this refunded deal.

Quote:
Come on, come on its not difficult. Im not asking you to recite the Gettysburg address. Put the e-mail up so we can discuss it. Oh and by the way i cant be bothered to read everything you write its far too much waffle and lifes too short. I will say your synopsis is more like an Epilogue. I will give the correct version hopefully tomorrow.
The "correct" version?????? :confused: Are you saying that the emails I posted are FABRICATED? They follow the synopsis PERFECTLY. All anyone has to do is read through them for a very clear understanding of from day 1 to the last extortion emails.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:06 AM

Posted by CG afterward:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceVentura http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17150#post17150)
So CG, you never told me your view on this subject.

You go into a store or any merchant to return something, and you choose as your remedy getting back your money instead of an exchange or replacement. The item cost you $1000 and you get your $1000 back.?

So let me get this straight. You paid back Turhan 100% of his winning bid? Is that what you're saying? Those emails were so convoluted that I am having a hard time making heads or tails of them. So I ask again, you paid him back 100% of the winning bid amount?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceVentura http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17150#post17150)
A year later, for whatever reason, the item's price (that you returned) has increased to $2000.

The unfathomable happens and somehow, you start to think that the store or merchant owes you ANOTHER $1000, and you march right back down there and demand that if they don't give you an extra $1000 OVER what they refunded, PLUS $10,000 "punitive damages" (to keep quiet), you're going to blab to the other stores or merchants about how they ripped you off for $11,000.

I would find that unacceptable and would not give the buyer another cent above and beyond the original paid price of the item and in your case, any shipping and restoration verification expenses that were required in order to discern whether your wares were trimmed or otherwise restored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceVentura http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17150#post17150)
What do you think? How optimistic does that sound to you?

I'm not sure what you mean by "opmimistic", but if that is the scenario, I repeat, it is unacceptable.

But I also ask again, you are saying that you refunded Turhan and/or his brother 100% of the winning bid amount?
__________________

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:07 AM

Whole page:

http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1295&page=14

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:08 AM

Ace posted on 7/19:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsy http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17301#post17301)
O.K then i'll call you Doctor Richard koos from now on. If that isnt your name either do LMK. Im just tying up a few loose ends here and then i'll be back with a proper response. In the meantime there are just a few things i want to say. First of all some of your replies to my questions were strange to say the least. I will come back to go through them 1 by 1 tomorrow. I will say though that your answer that starts with PURE BULLSHIT is one of the strangest answers to a question i have EVER read. Is this what others mean when they say you spread misinformation. Also these 3 out of 4 books that came back blue i take it you have scans of them or asked for scans of them if it was somebody else who sent them in(i cant be bothered to go back and read your reply). If so put them up so i can have a look and make sure they are the same copies, believe me i will tell if they are not, and just out of interest which one was supposedly the only restored copy. No doubt you are going to say it was one of the cheaper books but thats o.k. because i sent a scan of one of them to a real expert and he told me why it was trimmed. Finally stop giving stupid answers to a question i have asked a few times now. Read this carefully o.k. Stop calling me a blackmailer and an extortionist and put up the e-mail that starts off:-

T,
Whether it's 3 minutes, 3 years, or 30 years

That's the name for what you did. "Give me this or I'm going to see to it that you are ruined". Then, you stated a price for your silence. $150,000 had no bearing on the purchase price of the books. Your demands for $150,000 or you would do this and that were quite clear.

That's extortion in ANY legal circles. I showed an acquaintance, who is a judge, your emails. He couldn't believe that you would actually put such a thing in writing! Don't you remember writing you about the exact penal codes you violated? You didn't look them up? You stopped communicating with me immediately after that email. I had assumed that you knew full well that you had committed a crime and created a real problem for yourself if criminal action was initiated on it. And you know what? It isn't too late. The statute of limitation on your crime hasn't run out!

SCANS again. You sent a SCAN to an expert for analysis? Not the book. A scan? Your expert determined that it was trimmed from a SCAN? There are thousands of posts on the CGC forum from people who say, "you CAN'T tell for sure from a scan". There are others who state, "You CAN tell". Which one did you send the scan to? Someone who CAN tell or CAN'T tell? Or someone who THINKS he can tell from a SCAN?

What's strange here is that when you first talked to CK, you stated, "I bought books from someone and he sold me TRIMMED and RESTORED books. Is that true?

PURE BULLCRAP was the answer to the charge that CK still owed either YOU or Ilkin, the buyer, any money not paid on the refund. You said that CK did. CK has emails from Ilkin, the purchaser, who states otherwise. CG asked if it was true that CK still owes Buggsy a refund. The answer to that question is bullcrap.

It's not a refund that is outstanding here. A refund was made. There are no additional funds due. Paid in full, refunded in full. Your $150,000 extortion try, tip, punitive damages, or what not, wasn't.

A $150,000 bonus wasn't part of the original purchase refund guarantee if one had to be exercised. If a seller had to include a triple your money bonus clause with every sale of a raw book, it would be in the buyer's best interest to trim it himself to triple his money quickly. Nobody offers restoration related refund bonuses for that reason. No bonuses or penalties were agreed upon as a condition of the sale.

The buyer agreed to a money back refund limited to his purchase price of the books. That's exactly what the buyer received. All records show that and were confrimed by the buyer.
Last edited by AceVentura :

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:09 AM

Same day, by Ace:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciorac http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17332#post17332)
He obviously doesn't want to post it. Why don't you post it and end the supsense?#popcorn#

I thought I posted this already? I have over 300 emails saved to and from Ilkin and Turhan. I'll be damned if I'm going to read through each and every one of them looking for key phrases.

Anyway, Hello Ciorac, and I didn't mean to be gruff. I thought I posted the emails that beautifully explain all the facets of the deal and Turhan's extortion threats made after the fact.

You know what? Never mind. I'll post ALL of them. I'll put up 25 or 30 per day until they're all up, then you can all decide if Turhan's demands for $150,000 are for a refund, or for blackmail.
Last edited by The Charlton Guy : 07-19-2007 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Edited for the posting of unauthorized personal information.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:10 AM

Same day, by Ace:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zuckuss2003 http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
(http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17342#post17342)
Try searching the word whether, how often does someone write "whether".

I would say everyone is getting involved because it really does sound like you are dodgy. Long winded retorts but no substance or actual responses to questions.

That's not true at all! What better testimony can I present than to post the emails themselves? They clearly state the details. My words are just the liner notes based on the text of the emails. In them, you can see the exact words and details that were stated by both parties involved without a loss in translation.

Turhan says CK owes him $150,000. The emails tell a different story.

Turhan says CK didn't pay back all of the refund. The emails contradict that.

What about this is dodgy? I have a feeling that if I answered one million questions concerning transactions, someone would still say I'm being "dodgy". I'm under the microscope. Have been since 2001. I'm here to clarify misconceptions. Not further cloud them, or I wouldn't waste my time. And I have all emails and transaction data to back up my word. The evidence I've posted, in the form of our emails, is anything but dodgy.

And BTW, one point I haven't heard mentioned is that Daniel has his OWN Ebay account. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that. Daniel has also advertised on Craigslist offering music instruction for YEARS. That hasn't been mentioned either.

The things that seem to take the foreground in mentioning are circumstantial. Things that bolster conceptions. The things that weaken the misconceptions are neglected.
Last edited by AceVentura : 07-19-2007 at 02:20 AM.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:11 AM

posted by Ace, 7/19:

Listen, Here's an easy solution. Let's ask Buggsy exactly what CK STILL owes him. He says that he didn't get back the whole refund and was stiffed for $150,000 of it, right?

Can we agree on that being his CLAIM?

So here's my questions to Buggsy:

Ilkin paid Keys $72,000 + change for 4 books. That's what all the receipts show.

How much did Ilkin get back? ALL of the $72,000, some of it, or none of it?

And if the total money Ilkin spent was only $72,000 + change, HOW in the name of God can you demand $150,000 extra when that figure alone is more than DOUBLE the amount of money that CK received from Ilkin, not to mention that the $72,000 + change was all returned already?

Where does that extra $150,000 demand, above and beyond the purchase price of the books come from?

Maybe if you can explain this, we won't need to post anymore emails and can get on with the public flogging.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:13 AM

posted by Bugsy the Extortionist on 7/19:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciorac http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
(http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17332#post17332)
He obviously doesn't want to post it. Why don't you post it and end the supsense?#popcorn#

Right ive had enough of this. I gave Danny plenty of time to put this e-mail up but he just wouldnt and now you will see why:-

T,
Whether it's 3 minutes, 3 years, or 30 years, the dealer SHOULD make good on the books represented to you as unrestored id it was clearly made understood to you by him that the books you were buying WERE to be unrestored copies. I have NO idea what the legal ramifications are of this, but I do know that you should have a strong case against him if what I said above is so. I don't have any idea on how to proceed BUT I would imagine that CGC's opinion, if push came to shove, because of the evasive wording on the back of the label, "a good faith effort is made to detect restoration, but CGC does NOT warrant the process or results". What are they really saying here? "Don't blame us if we're wrong because we could be"? That's the way HIS lawyer would interpret it, in playing Devil's Advocate here. Get ANOTHER opinion. Contact Tracey Hoeft at Eclipse Paper Restoration. Let HIM examine the books for restoration, and let him save the CGC holders and reports of restoration, at least that way you have BACKUP expert opinion. THAT may be enough to warrant a legal case if he won't make good, which he should! And you don't JUST want your money back! YOU WANT what those books should have been worth now IF you had gotten what you paid for, or THOUGHT you were getting what you paid for! You have a RIGHT to that. You paid your money at a time when the market was more speculative and guessed right. You have every right to expect a return on your investment and NOW because the books are faulty, you have nothing and no profit. NO GOOD! He has ALOT of making up to do and should do the right thing or you SHOULD see a lawyer!!! Which dealer? I WILL keep it between you and I if you tell me, I can assure of that. My word is GOLD! I only ask because if I know who, I may be able to suggest more avenues to explore to spur him into making good should you encounter a problem. Time, in this case, is NOT a factor. It's not a question of you buying a piece and the grade is off. In THAT case it's YOUR error you must now live with. THIS is a case where the item was faulty, now HE must make good and live with it as this was HIS error or deception. -Richard (I'm here if you need help).

Even though i have saved all my e-mails i paid particular attention to this one just in case i needed it sometime in the future. When the books were found to be restored i sent him his e-mail. I told him that i totally agreed 100% with what he said in this e-mail and that HE too has a lot of making up to do and must do the right thing i.e pay him the full value of the books. I told Danny that Ilkin DID pay his money when the market was more speculative and guessed right. I also told him that he DOES have a right to expect a return on his investement and HE too make good and live with HIS error or Deception(in his case deception). Basically i threw this e-mail right back at him. I then asked a friend to find out the values of an Unrestored NM copies of Amazing Fantasy #15, Amazing Spiderman #1, Amazing Spiderman 19 and Amazing Spiderman #34. I then remembered the AF #15 that Danny sold for $117,000 a few years earlier and because he said that Ilkins book was sililar in condition i thought that a figure of $150,000 was more than fair. If anything the figure was UNDER the value of the books. Of course when you throw Danny's OWN WORDS back at him he doesnt like it. Suddenly this does not apply to him and he came up with excuses as to why it doesnt. Whatever steps i took Danny was NEVER going to pay the full unrestored value of the books like he thinks others should do. There is plenty more i have to say on this matter but i have to dash. I just wanted to dispell this 'Hush money' theory that Danny keeps gleefully coming up with. If i had asked for a million dollars yes THAT would have been extortion but i didnt i asked for the value of the books as per his email. If anybody has any questions please feel free to ask.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:14 AM

posted by Buggsy afterward:

Ive had an e-mail asking if my brother Ilkin was offered a replacement copy for the Amazing Fantasy #15 like Ace said. Well im an honest guy so i'll give an honest answer. Ace did say he would replace it and when Ilkin showed me the e-mail my reaction was

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No seriously it was. I had a complete laughing fit. In fact i was so weak with laughter that Ilkin had to help me off the floor and sit me down in a chair. What Danny didnt realise was the Andrew Knight(Captains of Industry) had already posted a testimonial on oldguys site which is here if anybody wants to read it:-

http://www.justafanboy.com/ComicKeys/testimonials.htm

For those that dont Basically Andrew bought an Avengers #1 VF/NM9.00++ in Guaranteed Unrestored condition(well what do you know Ilkins was supposed to be in unrestored condition as well), but it WAS found to be restored. Danny offered to replace it with a better copy and Andrew accepted. When he gave it to Peter of Paradise Comics who inspected it the first time round he told Andrew the 2nd copy has also been restored. I have no doubt that Danny would just have sent another RESTORED copy of an Amazing Fantasy #15 so i advised Ilkin to say no. As far as i was concerned Danny had his chance when he said the first copy was supposed to be Guaranteed Unrestored and wasnt so there was to be no second chance for somebody that i did not trust AT ALL. Hope that answers your question.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:15 AM

posted by Ace in rebuttal:

The offer WAS made, but the buyer chose a return for the purchase price as his remedy.

Quote:
For those that dont Basically Andrew bought an Avengers #1 VF/NM9.00++ in Guaranteed Unrestored condition(well what do you know Ilkins was supposed to be in unrestored condition as well), but it WAS found to be restored. Danny offered to replace it with a better copy and Andrew accepted. When he gave it to Peter of Paradise Comics who inspected it the first time round he told Andrew the 2nd copy has also been restored. I have no doubt that Danny would just have sent another RESTORED copy of an Amazing Fantasy #15 so i advised Ilkin to say no. As far as i was concerned Danny had his chance when he said the first copy was supposed to be Guaranteed Unrestored and wasnt so there was to be no second chance for somebody that i did not trust AT ALL. Hope that answers your question.
That's an assumption that you "would have received another restored AF#15". Not a fact that it happened and you did receive a 2nd restored copy.

One of those two Avengers #1s that were identified by Paradise as restored was later sent to CGC and graded 8.0 UNIVERSAL.
Last edited by AceVentura : 07-19-2007 at 10:45 PM.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:17 AM

posted by Ace afterward:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsy http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17400#post17400)
Right ive had enough of this. I gave Danny plenty of time to put this e-mail up but he just wouldnt and now you will see why:-

T,
Whether it's 3 minutes, 3 years, or 30 years, the dealer SHOULD make good on the books represented to you as unrestored id it was clearly made understood to you by him that the books you were buying WERE to be unrestored copies. I have NO idea what the legal ramifications are of this, but I do know that you should have a strong case against him if what I said above is so. I don't have any idea on how to proceed BUT I would imagine that CGC's opinion, if push came to shove, because of the evasive wording on the back of the label, "a good faith effort is made to detect restoration, but CGC does NOT warrant the process or results". What are they really saying here? "Don't blame us if we're wrong because we could be"? That's the way HIS lawyer would interpret it, in playing Devil's Advocate here. Get ANOTHER opinion. Contact Tracey Hoeft at Eclipse Paper Restoration. Let HIM examine the books for restoration, and let him save the CGC holders and reports of restoration, at least that way you have BACKUP expert opinion. THAT may be enough to warrant a legal case if he won't make good, which he should! And you don't JUST want your money back! YOU WANT what those books should have been worth now IF you had gotten what you paid for, or THOUGHT you were getting what you paid for! You have a RIGHT to that. You paid your money at a time when the market was more speculative and guessed right. You have every right to expect a return on your investment and NOW because the books are faulty, you have nothing and no profit. NO GOOD! He has ALOT of making up to do and should do the right thing or you SHOULD see a lawyer!!! Which dealer? I WILL keep it between you and I if you tell me, I can assure of that. My word is GOLD! I only ask because if I know who, I may be able to suggest more avenues to explore to spur him into making good should you encounter a problem. Time, in this case, is NOT a factor. It's not a question of you buying a piece and the grade is off. In THAT case it's YOUR error you must now live with. THIS is a case where the item was faulty, now HE must make good and live with it as this was HIS error or deception. -Richard (I'm here if you need help).

Even though i have saved all my e-mails i paid particular attention to this one just in case i needed it sometime in the future. When the books were found to be restored i sent him his e-mail. I told him that i totally agreed 100% with what he said in this e-mail and that HE too has a lot of making up to do and must do the right thing i.e pay him the full value of the books. I told Danny that Ilkin DID pay his money when the market was more speculative and guessed right. I also told him that he DOES have a right to expect a return on his investement and HE too make good and live with HIS error or Deception(in his case deception). Basically i threw this e-mail right back at him. I then asked a friend to find out the values of an Unrestored NM copies of Amazing Fantasy #15, Amazing Spiderman #1, Amazing Spiderman 19 and Amazing Spiderman #34. I then remembered the AF #15 that Danny sold for $117,000 a few years earlier and because he said that Ilkins book was sililar in condition i thought that a figure of $150,000 was more than fair. If anything the figure was UNDER the value of the books. Of course when you throw Danny's OWN WORDS back at him he doesnt like it. Suddenly this does not apply to him and he came up with excuses as to why it doesnt. Whatever steps i took Danny was NEVER going to pay the full unrestored value of the books like he thinks others should do. There is plenty more i have to say on this matter but i have to dash. I just wanted to dispell this 'Hush money' theory that Danny keeps gleefully coming up with. If i had asked for a million dollars yes THAT would have been extortion but i didnt i asked for the value of the books as per his email. If anybody has any questions please feel free to ask.

First off, you had a deal with CK, not Danny.

OK. I found it in my files too, now that I had the whole body of text to search for. On my discs, the files are named "Ilk1,Ilk2, Turhan1", etc. Not named for specific content. I have over 2 dozen discs with emails and various data related to this transaction gone South.

YES. His email is completely accurate as far as my quotes in that email are. At that time, that is what I believed. Unfortunately, in theory, triple your money back guarantees should be agreed upon AS A CONDITION OF THE SALE, BEFORE the sale is made. To be considered a valid term of sale, BEFORE the transaction is made, the seller should state, "YES. IF the raw book is defective, I will replace it with a CGCed AF#15 graded 9.4 blue, OR it's currect marketplace value". That didn't happen here. No guarantees of the sort were made, and Ilkin didn't ASK for CGC replacement, or CGC replacement values as his remedy when he returned them. He said, "I just want my money back, please don't be put out". Do you have THAT email, Buggsy?

Once again, Ilkin DIDN'T purchase a CGC 9.4 Universal label AF#15. He purchased a RAW NM AF#15.

AT the time of sale, a CGC AF#15 9.4 had sold for $85,000.
AT the time of sale, RAW high grade comics were attaining levels of approx 1/3 to 1/2 of their similarly graded Ebay CGCed counterparts in the marketplace.
Some sellers with excellent feedback were getting as high as 75% to 90% for raw books, relative to their similarly graded CGC counterparts.

Ilkin paid $45,000 for a RAW book. He received NO guarantees of CGC grading it 9.4. He had no guarantee of CK replacing it with a CGC graded 9.4 if restoration was found. NO merchant would make that offer on a raw, untested book.

There are two markets in this hobby. Raw and slabbed. There wouldn't be a raw market if every seller had to guarantee that a raw 9.4 would grade CGC 9.4, "or he would give the buyer for the price of a CGC 9.4". That's ridiculous

The book was guaranteed for the price of the purchase. Not for the price of a CGC 9.4. That was made very clear when Turhan kept pushing for a "triple your money back" guarantee.

At the time I made those statements to Turhan, they were my beliefs. As the gap between the values of raw and CGCed books widened, the practicality of that theory became illogical.

If you bought an AC Cobra 428 years ago for $7000 and had so many problems that you had to return it for your money back and then in 2007 learn that original AC Cobra 428s are commanding $500,000 in the classic auto marketplace, what do you do? Hope the seller is still doing business, walk into his showroom and demand $500,000 or a $500,000 car?

That's the flaw in my initial thoughts that I conveyed to Turhan. People do change their theoretical opinions based on practice.

Buyers return things to sellers all the time. All sellers should honor their guarantees. CK does and this case was no exception.

To this day, the highest price ever paid for a raw AF#15 is $45,000 to the best of my knowledge. Ebay sales do not indicate if the buyer followed through with a purchase. A sale is only a sale IF the book is transacted. An Ebay auction result tells less than half the story. It doesn't tell you if a $117,000 transaction was finalized.

I understand where he got the $150,000 figure. That part was not blackmail. That was a statement of what he believed he was owed AFTER the refund was made on the purchase price. I get it. The difference between $45,000 and what he believed a CGC 9.4 AF#15 would cost.

The blackmail was the WAY in which he went about "asking" for an extra $150,000. "You have until 5PM today to give me $150,000 OR I'm going to the authorities, I'm going to sue you, AND I'll see to it that I'm going to ruin you in the hobby and see you in jail".

Meanwhile, to jail for WHAT? For honoring a guarantee and refunding his brother's money?

A JUDGE (not in this case, just an aquaintance) considered his wording and tactics BLACKMAIL. I wasn't sure, the judge was. This is after I explained ALL the conditions of the sale and refund.

"Give me money or I'll send your nude pictures to the media". Wasn't there just a new story on Miss NJ to this effect? That's blackmail!

That isn't, "eat your breakfast or you're not going out to play".

That's a $150,000 demand to keep it quiet or "I'll see you ruined". That's demand to buy silence. Reagrdless of where the $150,000 figure came from, the manner in which it was demanded was blackmail.

$45,000 Paid, $45,000 Refunded. All conditions of the pre-sale agreed upon guarantee satisfied.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:19 AM

Buggsy the Extortionist on 7/21:

As i already explained to you Mr comic-keys the amount of $150,000 was mainly based(it also included the raw NM prices for ASM 1,19,34) on the sale of your raw copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 which you said was similar to Ilkins, because you have missed it i will try and make it easier and say it was item number 2245499808 and ended on May 30th 2004 and the winning bid was $117,600 AND was described as a WHITE-PAGED GUARANTEED UNRESTORED GEM. Well what do you know Ilkins copy was supposed to be Guaranteed Unrestored as well. By the way you never did answer my question. Which comics that were returned to you by Ilkin came back with blue labels.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:20 AM

Ace in rebuttal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsy http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17562#post17562)
As i already explained to you Mr comic-keys the amount of $150,000 was mainly based(it also included the raw NM prices for ASM 1,19,34) on the sale of your raw copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 which you said was similar to Ilkins, because you have missed it i will try and make it easier and say it was item number 2245499808 and ended on May 30th 2004 and the winning bid was $117,600 AND was described as a WHITE-PAGED GUARANTEED UNRESTORED GEM. Well what do you know Ilkins copy was supposed to be Guaranteed Unrestored as well. By the way you never did answer my question. Which comics that were returned to you by Ilkin came back with blue labels.

Of course I answered the question. I told Ilkin that the Amazing Spiderman #1, 19 and 34 were all returned blue labeled. I didn't submit them. I don't belong to the CGC Collector's Society.

Yes, that AF #15 was similar to Ilkin's. As it turned out, although the auction finished at $117,600, that's not always an indication that the book actually SOLD.

How many times have we seen Heritage auction results for books that "sold" at a certain price and were back in the next auction 2 months later, back up on the block?

There was also a $107,000 Ebay sale on JP's Spiderman #1 CGC 9.6 (the one with the bottom spine corner that had exploded from too vigorous a pressing). GPAnalysis even reported the "sale", which the buyer verified he had NOT made.

An auction result is merely that. A result, not a transaction. There's no absolute indication made as to if that bid was honored and money changed hands. In the case of the AF#15, it did not.

That's why Ebay allows a seller to file a non-paying bidder alert. To recoup the final value fee if the buyer doesn't pay. I'm sure you've heard of that Ebay function.

BTW, Ilkin's copy was NEVER absolutely proven to be restored. It was NOT CGCed and from my understanding, your restoration expert based his decision on SCANS.

When Ilkin told me that someone had examined SCANS of the books and determined them ALL to be restored, I asked Ilkin if he would like to CGC them to be sure because knowing the origins of the books, I disagree. He declined. Just like he declined replacement.

He said, "I've spoken to the wife and she agrees with me on this. I just would like to get my money back. I hope you're not put out by this".

I have these quotes word for word in an email if you would like me to post it for you.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:21 AM

Ace again:

Turhan, I'm genuinely sorry about the turn of events concerning this reversed transaction. The books WERE guaranteed unrestored. Ilkin chose to return the books based on his expert examining the scans of the books. Most, experts alike, have come to realize that scans are NOT an effective and foolproof way to positively determine restoration. I disagreed that they were restored, Ilkin was convinced, requested a return, and got his refund. The guarantee was honored precisely upon Ilkin's request.

As long as there are raw books left to transact in this hobby and two people left to view them, there will ALWAYS be a disagreement as to what IS ad what ISN'T restored. Which of these two people is the qualified expert will also be argued.

You can buy raw books from a seller with or without a lifetime restoration guarantee. CK is one of the very painfully few sellers who offer and honor that guarantee.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:27 AM

I thought that was the end of that, pretty much the entire logistics of the deal gone over with a fine tooth comb, every detail examined and scrutinized. But now Bugsy the Extortionist reiterates that CK owes him another 8,000 pounds.

$72,000 - $72,000 = $0.00

Please explain how $72,000 - $72,000 = $8000 pounds.

At least we're down to $8,000 pounds from the $222,000 refund ($150,000 + $72,000) you attempted to EXTORT on a $72,000 purchase.

Tell me, Buggsy. Have you ever tried that before with any other seller, or was mine the honor of being your maiden extortion attempt?

Hoss

11-02-2007, 12:34 AM

You know, you coulda just made a link to those original threads! :D

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 12:53 AM

You know, you coulda just made a link to those original threads! :D

Twofold reason why I didn't, Hoss. Most pages, except for the few I linked, had alot of other non-essential, sidetracked commentary. I wanted to cincentrate on only the relevant material. The way I did it reads concisely on only the subject at hand.

The other reason was to show Bugsy that I don't mind taking the time to refry old nonsense. ESPECIALLY when I'm 100% in the right.

The Charlton Guy

11-02-2007, 02:20 AM

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 03:08 AM

Point taken.

But looking back and reading all of this, I realize that you never directly answered one of my questions:

That is, did you refund his brother the full amount paid for the books?

Maybe I'm being dense, but your replies regarding this issue still seem very obtuse, maybe moreso the second time around.

I see nowhere in your posts where you directly say that you refunded the total payment amount in full.

Sure I did. It's there many, many times. $72,000 received, $72,000 refunded. Deals cost money however. Of the $72,000 received, oncs Paypal and ebay took their cuts, my NET on the $72,000 Ilkin sent was about $66,000.

Since I view this as a seller's cost of doing business, I didn't deduct that from my refund, so in essence, the TRUE figure on my end is:

$66,000 received, $72,000 refunded (the $72,000 refunded because that was the GROSS total of what I received from Ilkin, NOT TURHAN/Bugsy).

I have emails to and from Ilkin where he acknowledges my book-keeping on the payments I received and their dates and amounts, and the refunds I made and their dates and amounts.

If anyone would like to see the ledger entries email and Ilkin's (the BUYER) acknowledgement of those figures being correct and the refund being completed, I'd be happy to find the emails. I have ALL of the emails ever exchanged with Ilkin, the buyer, and Turhan, Ilkin's brother, the extortionist.

So yes, every penny I received from Ilkin was returned. Even the $6000+ that paypal deducted from his payments.

If Bugsy is referring to 8,000 pounds, it has NOTHING to do with what I received. It's probably exchange rates and duties, which are NOT refundable and never were agreed upon at any time as being refundable.

The Charlton Guy

11-02-2007, 03:18 AM

Understood. Thanks.

AceVentura

11-02-2007, 04:19 AM

Understood. Thanks.

The thing that was so troubling about this was Turhan's interjection. The deal was between his brother and I and was reversed amicably. The last refund payment was hung up in paypal because he received a request to fill out some papers. Paypal is like that. If what they deem as a "suspicious" amount of money is deposited in your account in too short a time, they assume you're money laundering, so they wanted all kinds of personal info from Ilkin.

As it wound up, I had to WIRE him the last refund installment because his paypal account was limited by them as to how much he could receive in a certain period.

While I'm effecting the last wire containing the $22,000 or so that paypal returned to my account, Turhan stepped in with his, "I want not only the $72,000 but an extra $150,000 or I'm going to ruin you. Pay me $150,000 or I'm going here, there, and everywhere". CLASSIC extortion. I did go to a lawyer who was a former Judge, whom I explained the deal very carefully to and who saw the emails from Turhan. He advised me that they were criminal demands and to follow through with criminal authorities.

I figured that since he wasn't even INVOLVED in Turhan's blackmail demands, Ilkin probably knew NOTHING about it and this was just a clandestine attempt by an opportune blackmailer to line his pockets, unbeknownst to his brother that actually BOUGHT the books and chose to return them for his paid price as his remedy. I let it go and concluded my ongoing, amicable business with Ilkin once paypal returned my funds that were hung up waiting for Ilkin's paperwork. 6 months after Ilkin had all his money back, Turhan was still at it, still making demands, and I'll wager that he always will be. Thinking about that $150,000 that he feels unjustifiably entitled to, and scheming how to get it, probably keeps his bowels regular!

stupidman

11-03-2007, 03:15 AM

AceVentura

11-03-2007, 07:45 AM

Please just go die so we can end all this. The comic community awaits the day...
Or meet me under a bridge in Brooklyn with a sack full of money so I can beat the shit out of you and break your "breadstick arms".

Now that's a call-back...

I guess you're not a Christian. You've got a nasty little, all consuming, hate thing brewing there! #allhailme#

My suggestion is to consult a therapist about it before it consumes you. Or study this:

http://www.butler-bowdon.com/okok.htm

I'll tell you though, since you brought up this dying thing. I feel freakin' GREAT!!! I'm in the best shape of my life and getting STRONGER as the years pass. I took a full year of from selling and I feel revitalized mentally, ready and rarin' to start wheelin' and dealin' again.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the awful truth of the matter is that the present community is going to be waiting a LONNNNNNNNNNNNG time for my demise, Stu. Quite honestly, I'm driven to outlive the entire present community, for SPITE!!! E-V-E-R-Y ONE!! And when I set my mind to do something, there's no stopping me. I'm good like that.

I've sometimes thought about death, as everybody does, and I know how disappointing this is going to be for me to share with you, but I don't think I CAN die! Not only do I have an iron will, but superb genetics are on my side. The people in my family usually live to be 150 or more! Like those Ukrainian Centegenerians that all have their Asphyxes hidden away in a safe place so they CAN'T die. But I think you already suspect the truth that I'm going to be around forever, which is why you whip yourself into such a silly dither over me!

Sadly, What you must do is acknowledge and come to grips with the frustrating fact that the guy everybody wishes dead is the one that you can BET on to outlive them ALL, and there's NOTHING anyone can do about it. THAT'S the guy that survives EVERYTHING. And that guy is ME, ME, ME! Like Rasputin. They poisoned him, then they stabbed him, and then they even SHOT him and he STILL refused to die. Oh, he was probably dead allright, but he refused to give in. That's ALWAYS the way!!! Without exception, from my vast experience in these matters of petty ill will and folks wishing people dead.

To quote Alanis Morisette, "Isn't it ironic?". :)

bugsy

11-03-2007, 07:44 PM

It looks like i struck a nerve when i made the post by FT saying that purchases by Perry Stroud were paid for by Richard koos(AceVentura). Unfortunately i dont have as much time on my hands to make posts like The 'Doctor'(whats happened to all those 72 hours shifts he use to do) and because i am ready to go out to a charity function in Central London i only have time for a few posts. First of all because Ventura is 'missing the point' i'll post this e-mail AGAIN :-

T,
Whether it's 3 minutes, 3 years, or 30 years, the dealer SHOULD make good on the books represented to you as unrestored id it was clearly made understood to you by him that the books you were buying WERE to be unrestored copies. I have NO idea what the legal ramifications are of this, but I do know that you should have a strong case against him if what I said above is so. I don't have any idea on how to proceed BUT I would imagine that CGC's opinion, if push came to shove, because of the evasive wording on the back of the label, "a good faith effort is made to detect restoration, but CGC does NOT warrant the process or results". What are they really saying here? "Don't blame us if we're wrong because we could be"? That's the way HIS lawyer would interpret it, in playing Devil's Advocate here. Get ANOTHER opinion. Contact Tracey Hoeft at Eclipse Paper Restoration. Let HIM examine the books for restoration, and let him save the CGC holders and reports of restoration, at least that way you have BACKUP expert opinion. THAT may be enough to warrant a legal case if he won't make good, which he should! And you don't JUST want your money back! YOU WANT what those books should have been worth now IF you had gotten what you paid for, or THOUGHT you were getting what you paid for! You have a RIGHT to that. You paid your money at a time when the market was more speculative and guessed right. You have every right to expect a return on your investment and NOW because the books are faulty, you have nothing and no profit. NO GOOD! He has ALOT of making up to do and should do the right thing or you SHOULD see a lawyer!!! Which dealer? I WILL keep it between you and I if you tell me, I can assure of that. My word is GOLD! I only ask because if I know who, I may be able to suggest more avenues to explore to spur him into making good should you encounter a problem. Time, in this case, is NOT a factor. It's not a question of you buying a piece and the grade is off. In THAT case it's YOUR error you must now live with. THIS is a case where the item was faulty, now HE must make good and live with it as this was HIS error or deception. -Richard (I'm here if you need help).

Even though i have saved all my e-mails i paid particular attention to this one just in case i needed it sometime in the future. When the books were found to be restored i sent him his e-mail. I told him that i totally agreed 100% with what he said in this e-mail and that HE too has a lot of making up to do and must do the right thing i.e pay him the full value of the books. I told Danny that Ilkin DID pay his money when the market was more speculative and guessed right. I also told him that he DOES have a right to expect a return on his investement and HE too make good and live with HIS error or Deception(in his case deception). Basically i threw this e-mail right back at him. I then asked a friend to find out the values of an Unrestored NM copies of Amazing Fantasy #15, Amazing Spiderman #1, Amazing Spiderman 19 and Amazing Spiderman #34. I then remembered the AF #15 that Danny sold for $117,000 a few years earlier and because he said that Ilkins book was sililar in condition i thought that a figure of $150,000 was more than fair. If anything the figure was UNDER the value of the books. Of course when you throw Danny's OWN WORDS back at him he doesnt like it. Suddenly this does not apply to him and he came up with excuses as to why it doesnt. Whatever steps i took Danny was NEVER going to pay the full unrestored value of the books like he thinks others should do. There is plenty more i have to say on this matter but i have to dash. I just wanted to dispell this 'Hush money' theory that Danny keeps gleefully coming up with. If i had asked for a million dollars yes THAT would have been extortion but i didnt i asked for the value of the books as per his email. If anybody has any questions please feel free to ask.

Yes i know ive already posted this and explained my position on how i came to this figure but Ventura loves telling everyone how they are missing the point when HE is the one thats 'missing the point." Hypochrite? he certainly is.

AceVentura

11-03-2007, 10:56 PM

It looks like i struck a nerve when i made the post by FT saying that purchases by Perry Stroud were paid for by Richard koos(AceVentura).

Not at ALL, Busgy. Nothing is further than the truth. You give yourself FAR too much credit. You're long-suit is BLACKMAIL, not striking nerves, and a tailor should stick to his last.

I thought that was cleared up long ago, CK owing Robo a refund and at that time since Robo didn't have a paypal account, CK simply did both parties a favor.

But possibly you have in mind another extortion attempt, this time threatening me with exposing Perry Stroud. I guess I'll be getting another email soon with blackmail demands from you. They're always fun to read.

Unfortunately i dont have as much time on my hands to make posts like The 'Doctor'(whats happened to all those 72 hours shifts he use to do) and because i am ready to go out to a charity function in Central London i only have time for a few posts. First of all because Ventura is 'missing the point' i'll post this e-mail AGAIN :-

T,
Whether it's 3 minutes, 3 years, or 30 years, the dealer SHOULD make good on the books represented to you as unrestored id it was clearly made understood to you by him that the books you were buying WERE to be unrestored copies. I have NO idea what the legal ramifications are of this, but I do know that you should have a strong case against him if what I said above is so. I don't have any idea on how to proceed BUT I would imagine that CGC's opinion, if push came to shove, because of the evasive wording on the back of the label, "a good faith effort is made to detect restoration, but CGC does NOT warrant the process or results". What are they really saying here? "Don't blame us if we're wrong because we could be"? That's the way HIS lawyer would interpret it, in playing Devil's Advocate here. Get ANOTHER opinion. Contact Tracey Hoeft at Eclipse Paper Restoration. Let HIM examine the books for restoration, and let him save the CGC holders and reports of restoration, at least that way you have BACKUP expert opinion. THAT may be enough to warrant a legal case if he won't make good, which he should! And you don't JUST want your money back! YOU WANT what those books should have been worth now IF you had gotten what you paid for, or THOUGHT you were getting what you paid for! You have a RIGHT to that. You paid your money at a time when the market was more speculative and guessed right. You have every right to expect a return on your investment and NOW because the books are faulty, you have nothing and no profit. NO GOOD! He has ALOT of making up to do and should do the right thing or you SHOULD see a lawyer!!! Which dealer? I WILL keep it between you and I if you tell me, I can assure of that. My word is GOLD! I only ask because if I know who, I may be able to suggest more avenues to explore to spur him into making good should you encounter a problem. Time, in this case, is NOT a factor. It's not a question of you buying a piece and the grade is off. In THAT case it's YOUR error you must now live with. THIS is a case where the item was faulty, now HE must make good and live with it as this was HIS error or deception. -Richard (I'm here if you need help).

You poor deluded blackmailer. Was this a CONDITION of the sale agreed upon before or at any time DURING the sale, or afterward? Or was it hypothetical talk? Please show me where I had agreed to refund $222,000 ($72,000 + your $150,000 "commission") if Ilkin exercised his option to ever return them. Can you please point that agreement out in emails pertaining to the PURCHASE of the comics?

Even though i have saved all my e-mails i paid particular attention to this one just in case i needed it sometime in the future. When the books were found to be restored i sent him his e-mail. I told him that i totally agreed 100% with what he said in this e-mail and that HE too has a lot of making up to do and must do the right thing i.e pay him the full value of the books. I told Danny that Ilkin DID pay his money when the market was more speculative and guessed right. I also told him that he DOES have a right to expect a return on his investement and HE too make good and live with HIS error or Deception(in his case deception). Basically i threw this e-mail right back at him. I then asked a friend to find out the values of an Unrestored NM copies of Amazing Fantasy #15, Amazing Spiderman #1, Amazing Spiderman 19 and Amazing Spiderman #34. I then remembered the AF #15 that Danny sold for $117,000 a few years earlier and because he said that Ilkins book was sililar in condition i thought that a figure of $150,000 was more than fair. If anything the figure was UNDER the value of the books. Of course when you throw Danny's OWN WORDS back at him he doesnt like it. Suddenly this does not apply to him and he came up with excuses as to why it doesnt. Whatever steps i took Danny was NEVER going to pay the full unrestored value of the books like he thinks others should do. There is plenty more i have to say on this matter but i have to dash. I just wanted to dispell this 'Hush money' theory that Danny keeps gleefully coming up with. If i had asked for a million dollars yes THAT would have been extortion but i didnt i asked for the value of the books as per his email. If anybody has any questions please feel free to ask.

Yes i know ive already posted this and explained my position on how i came to this figure but Ventura loves telling everyone how they are missing the point when HE is the one thats 'missing the point." Hypochrite? he certainly is.

Danny didn't sell you anything and Danny has yet to come up with anything at all, let alone anything "gleeful". You dealt with CK, not anyone named Danny. You ARE one confused blackmailer, aren't you?

Also, you didn't tell ME that "I had alot of making up to do". You specifically stated that if I didn't wire you $150,000 post haste, you were going to "ruin me". Your wording and intent were clear enough that it left no question at all in the mind of a lawyer and former Supreme Court JUDGE that it violated penal codes on extortion.

And once again, Ilkin bought RAW books, the market value on which fluctuate. THREE of the books later CGCed BLUE.

What a wonderful world it would be if we could ALL walk into any store and say, "you know, I returned a Proctor Silex blender last year that was selling for $50, and now it's selling for $100. You guys owe me $50, and actually walk out with $50 rather than being thrown the hell out on your ear.