Strange and eerie Blue Labels

[AceVentura]

How does a book score a 9.8 with paper missing from the bottom left corner? Not to mention that the book is more than an 1/8th of an inch wider across the bottom than across the top (slight slant that the book is displayed at adjusted for):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Marvel-Tales-6-CGC-9-8-oww-NO-Reserve_W0QQitemZ140177383701QQihZ004QQcategoryZ75 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://ads.auctionads.com/pagead/link_16ab40a37249e63306c1_ccd9e6a8c4079976fcc759fb 09b0475e_http://cgi.ebay.com/Marvel-Tales-6-CGC-9-8-oww-NO-Reserve_W0QQitemZ140177383701QQihZ004QQcategoryZ75 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

This is a thread aimed at educating hobbyists like BB, whom erroneously feel that a trimmed book can be positively judged by its cover. It's size, shape, or any other observable characteristic on a SCAN alone without first hand examination of the edges.

A scan can earmark a book that should bear further examination, but that in hand examination of the edge itself, from angles not available on a scan, should be the final determining factor.

[AceVentura]

http://cgi.ebay.com/FANTASTIC-FOUR-1-CGC-5-0-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ190173837185QQihZ009QQcategoryZ32 731QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Based on the way it's folded, with the "t" of the in the FF logo almost touching the spine edge, the 10 cent circle being intersected by the right edge of the cover, and coincidentally, the right edge devoid of chips, would cause many trim-conscious hobbyists' trim-alarms to trigger were this book not slabbed.

[AceVentura]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Amazing-Spider-Man-6-CGC-6-0-ow-NO-Reserve_W0QQitemZ140179578705QQihZ004QQcategoryZ32 739QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't even know where to begin on this dodo. No Marvel comic EVER went on the newsstand with a right edge cover and page configuration like this. If this were a raw book, the CGC forumites would be screaming bloody murder. And they'd be correct in this sad, sad case of a "gift" blue label.

[toz1960]

If I am not badly mistaken,this is the smae seller who has a lot of the Dan DeCarlo collection.There were a lot of his listings for slabbbed books that were suspect also.Maybe being an Overstreet advison halps when submiting books.

[AceVentura]

If I am not badly mistaken,this is the smae seller who has a lot of the Dan DeCarlo collection.There were a lot of his listings for slabbbed books that were suspect also.Maybe being an Overstreet advison halps when submiting books.

Maybe being an EMPLOYEE of Heritage, they're restoration specialist, Heritage being the OWNER of CGC helps considerably more than ANYONE can imagine.

Some poor schnook is in for a shocking wake up call if he cracks and resubmits this 6.0 #6. Or worse yet, sends it to SUE for a looksee!

The upside is that Sue will be as amused by it.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Wow, hold on, "Maybe being an EMPLOYEE of Heritage, they're restoration specialist, Heritage being the OWNER of CGC helps considerably more than ANYONE can imagine."
Please explain. Heritage is an owner of CGC?

[oxbladder]

Yes Heritage owns part of the business group that CGC belongs to ... if I remember correctly.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Well if that's not the most interesting little bit of information I've heard in a while I'll eat my own slab. A low grade one though, like a 5.0 or a qualified.

[oxbladder]

Yeah just a wee bit of a conflict of interest IMO

[camper49]

I purchased the BATMAN 302 CGC 9.6 (Don Rosa) from him.
I want to see this book up close and personal.
I'll let you know when it arrives.
I should add though that I have purchased Modern Age CGC books from this seller and they all appear legit to me.

[oxbladder]

Its a Rosa how could it not be nice?!

[camper49]

Exactly!
It was only a 9.6 but since it's a Rosa book, I couldn't resist.

[oxbladder]

My understanding is that the quality of his collection was fantastic. Especially the page quality.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Hey ACE, are you sure about that?
"
I don't even know where to begin on this dodo. No Marvel comic EVER went on the newsstand with a right edge cover and page configuration like this. If this were a raw book, the CGC forumites would be screaming bloody murder. And they'd be correct in this sad, sad case of a "gift" blue label."

Because I have lots of books in my collection that look like this.

[Mariner]

Are there different standards for different collections?

Or does the grading company assign the same person to grade a book from the collection each time it comes in?

I noticed that on some collections there is uniform writing on the covers, but it doesn't affect the grade. But similar writing on covers of other books does affect the grade. From that I see I would say it also happens with mold foxing and shadows along the edges. Seems to change the grade in some books, but doesn't seem to change the grade when it comes from a certain colleciton where most of the books have the same writing, mold, or shadows.

[Duffman_Comics]

CGC has stated that the graders do not know whose books they are looking at/grading.

That's fine to a certain point.

However the graders are at least comic book fans. They would be aware of Pedigrees, collections and what not.

I do not know at what point a book is assigned a Pedigree or Collection label. If it is after the grading process, OK, but I am pretty sure any grader worth his salt would detect, say, a Church or Crippen well before the label is printed. Regardless of the "blind" aspect, they'd have to know.

"Lesser" collections? Not so much. I do think that if a big stream of high grade Silver/Bronze books appeared tongues would wag. I also cannot believe that CGC would risk really mixing books up in the grading submission area either. Fraught with risk and their record on getting the label right isn't exactly unblemished.

Does this affect the label assigned? CGC says no, the grading process is completely "blind" to the identity of the submitter.

We have to accept this on faith, however.

[Mariner]

CGC has stated that the graders do not know whose books they are looking at/grading.

That's fine to a certain point.

However the graders are at least comic book fans. They would be aware of Pedigrees, collections and what not.

I do not know at what point a book is assigned a Pedigree or Collection label. If it is after the grading process, OK, but I am pretty sure any grader worth his salt would detect, say, a Church or Crippen well before the label is printed. Regardless of the "blind" aspect, they'd have to know.

"Lesser" collections? Not so much. I do think that if a big stream of high grade Silver/Bronze books appeared tongues would wag. I also cannot believe that CGC would risk really mixing books up in the grading submission area either. Fraught with risk and their record on getting the label right isn't exactly unblemished.

Does this affect the label assigned? CGC says no, the grading process is completely "blind" to the identity of the submitter.

We have to accept this on faith, however.


I don't know when they put a pedigree designation on a book, either. But if they graded it separately from putting on the pedigree then that would mean more than one person involved in grading. And I can't imagine that if the second guy doesn't agree with the grade from the first guy that something isn't done about it. And, like you said, it's just not possible that a person whose got the job of grading books isn't going to recognize many, most, even all pedigree books that come before them. And when you're experienced enough to recognize a pedigree, you're also experienced enough to have a good idea who owns it. If you don't know owns it now then you may know who found the pedigree. Or you might know people who owned it briefly and sold it. And more than likely one or more of those people will be frequent clients or friends of somebody at CGC. And it just isn't possible to be unaffected by that knowledge in some way (even if you overcompensate). This is not to say anybody at CGC is anything at all but human. It's not possible for anybody to disregard the knowledge they have about a book. And with many of these books they're either gonna know whose it is or they're gonna know somebody who knows somebody who has a stake in it now -- or did, once upon a time.

[Duffman_Comics]

From memory, with the exception of Moderns, all books are graded by three people.

I think if there is still disagreement then Steve Borock gets involved - but I may very well be wrong on that.

You are right, however. It is a system designed by humans and operated by people. Mistakes will be made. It is only when these "mistakes" have the whiff of collusion that problems for the enterprise will arise.

It is in this area of addressing their shortcomings that CGC has been very slick, in a PR kind of way. Quick to acknowledge errors and take steps to ensure they don't happen again and compensate the aggrieved.

What does worry me is the "punishment" for those that try to rort the system seems inadequate at best. "I told Jason Ewert to get out of the hobby" says S.B.

Really? Seems like being flogged with a wet lettuce.

Why not go after him in a criminal or civil suit? I know a couple of guys tried (I'm looking at you Red) but it came to nothing.

All this being said, for the most part the existence of CGC has proved to be a positive if only to rein in the resto-scammers like Danny Boy. Stupid people will still do stupid things, but CGC has at least allowed for a more informed consumer.

My 12c

[stupidman]

I don't know when they put a pedigree designation on a book, either. .

"CGC requires that a pedigree verification form be completed when submitting a comic book for pedigree status. The names of the current owner and previous owner are required. If there are any additional concerns or questions, a CGC Pedigree Specialist will contact one of the two people named on the verification form.

If you are the current owner of a collection that you feel might be a pedigree, CGC is more than happy to discuss the potential pedigree status with you. Please feel free to call and ask to speak to a Pedigree Specialist."

[Mariner]

"CGC requires that a pedigree verification form be completed when submitting a comic book for pedigree status. The names of the current owner and previous owner are required. If there are any additional concerns or questions, a CGC Pedigree Specialist will contact one of the two people named on the verification form.

If you are the current owner of a collection that you feel might be a pedigree, CGC is more than happy to discuss the potential pedigree status with you. Please feel free to call and ask to speak to a Pedigree Specialist."


It's not precisely what I would have guessed, but close. It's not possible to grade books and designate some as pedigrees without the knowledge of who owned the book and who sold it to them. With pedigrees the graders will always know what similar books in the collection got graded at, whether the owner is someone they know or don't know, like or don't like, whether it's someone who does a lot of business with them or a little. Yes, it is also like that in many other collecting fields and in many other businesses. But one should not delude oneself or others that it is somehow different here. It's not different. It's not even possible it could be different.