To cgc or not?

[strikezonelv]

Hi all,
I've been out of collecting for more than 10yrs. and everywhere I look it seems like if you want the best price for your stuff you need it graded.
If I was still collecting I wouldn't consider slabbing a book. But to get the best price, when is it worthwhile to submit something for grading?
I'm fairly certain I have a few books from the 70s that should grade in the 9.? how can I have a reasonable guess on whether they're worth sending in or not?
Also some from the 60s same ? I've seen some books that are listed as selling slabbed for money that in the past we would have bought them only as reading copies.
Thanks for any help offered, who knows maybe talking books might even get me interested in collecting again.#cowboy#

[AussieRuss]

If its very high grade & you want to keep in for sentimental reasons or to sell then you may choose to have it slabbed but be sure that it is very high grade.

If its for reading or putting together a mid to high grade reading run than it kind of defeats the purpose to have it slabbed.

Also check how many copies are already in the census & in what grades. this may help you with your decision.

Are they key issues? EG: first issues or first appearences?

What titles are they?

Russ...

[Duffman_Comics]

Welcome to the Boards strikezonelv (are you from Las Vegas? just curious).

What Russ says is correct, I'll add my 12c.

70's and 80's books? They'd better be high grade. Pristine. The goalposts have shifted since the introduction of CGC and what was once thought "mint" is now likely to be considered VF.

Don't shoot the messenger. That's the way it is.

The only books from this period that are worth slabbing if not "pristine" are the keys. Giant Size X-Men #1, Uncanny X-Men #94. Incredible Hulk #181, Amazing Spider-Man #121, 122 & 129. There are a bunch more (Adams Batman and Detective come to mind, check Overstreet not for prices but for a "relative value indicator".

The "census" referred to is the "pissing contest" that CGC maintains whereby collectors add their CGC books to a database. It is a good indicator of how many high grade books of an issue are around, but for obvious reasons not a lot of collectors want to list their "CGC 2.5 ASM #105" if you get my drift.

Unsure of the grade? There is a thread here to ask just that - sometimes difficult from a scan. CGC also offers a "pre screening" so that if a book doesn't measure up to a grade that you think it warrants, the whole encapsulating etc doesn't happen and the cost to you is a lot less.

Check their website http://www.cgccomics.com/services/services_and_fees.asp

I'm not sure if one has to register to get this far, but if so, it is both painless and free.

Check the item under services and fees for the gen on pre-screening.

This comes to you as a courtesy from a collector that does not own a single CGC book #creep#

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

All good info Dman, I did not know that the census was voluntary, I thought that your book was automatically entered into the census, I'll have to look into this.

I've always heard that if a non modern book is worh more than $200 then it is worth it. Modern cost less to slab, about $20, so maybe those could be worth less and still be profitable to slab. However, you have to know the real value (what similar books have sold for on eBay) of a modern book and not just the guide value. The CGC census is abslutely essential when thinking about slabbing a book. Take a look at the Hulk 181's as an example of how the amount of books and there grades might affect your decision to slab.

Another thing to consider is the fact that, like happened to me recently, you might get back green (qualified) or purple (PLOD the purple label of DEATH) lable books. Many people will simply crack these open and sell them undisclosed hoping to hit the speculator market. I don't do that and I think it's a really horrible after effect of the CGC.

As far as what you said "I'm fairly certain I have a few books from the 70s that should grade in the 9.?" It's really important to know the difference between a 9.0 and higher books. A 9.8 can bring astronomical prices compared to a 9.0. I would try the CGC thread that DMAN suggested, but I've found that the OVERSTREET COMIC BOOK GRADING GUIDE ISBN-0609810529 is the most helpful tool. It has great images of comics in every grade, a uniform description outline for every grade and it even has a section in the back where they show a single issue, Atom #25, in every grade.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

[stupidman]

The "census" referred to is the "pissing contest" that CGC maintains whereby collectors add their CGC books to a database. It is a good indicator of how many high grade books of an issue are around, but for obvious reasons not a lot of collectors want to list their "CGC 2.5 ASM #105" if you get my drift.

Actually that's the Registry, which is entirely voluntary. The Census is a list of all books slabbed by CGC, and is updated by CGC, and not touched by any "civilian".

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Thanks for clearing that up Stupid. Gosh that sounds funny, what do we use for an abrviation? SM? S&M? That sounds a little harsh.

[stupidman]

Thanks for clearing that up Stupid. Gosh that sounds funny, what do we use for an abrviation? SM? S&M? That sounds a little harsh.

You can shorten my ID to my name - Stu. Ahh, make sense now? LOL.

[djpinkpanther67]

I'm with Stupid! :grin:

[thirdgreenham]

Actually that's the Registry, which is entirely voluntary. The Census is a list of all books slabbed by CGC, and is updated by CGC, and not touched by any "civilian".

Yeah, you beat me to it.

Andy

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

I should have known that.

[camper49]

To CGC or not?
Depends on why you collect comic books.

In my case, I collected (and still collect) because I love the stories and art.
So slabbing was never an option for me because I can no longer read the book once it's slabbed.

But now, due to my house going from 0 kids living with us to 4 kids living with us, I am forced to drastically downsize my collection.

So now I am basically keeping a "raw" High Grade unslabbed copy of my BATMAN series books so I can read them whenever I feel like it (I keep duplicate lower grade "raw" copies of some of the more valuable ones).
Still working on obtaining the entire series from #1 to #675, missing many of the early ones.

Alongside these, I also keep a slabbed copy of each book, shooting for 9.8's from BATMAN #300 to Present and 9.4 or higher below #300.
So far, I'm up to 260 CGC BATMAN books, most of them 9.8.

So why do I CGC?
Since my collection is being severely downsized, I narrowed my collecting to one series only, my favourite one.
I want one (or more) raw copy to read and one CGC copy to store away.
I guess it's the collector in me that just needs to collect for the sake of collecting.

And yes, I'm in the CGC Registry as well.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

I should have known STU. I forgot, haven't been here much lately.

I've seen images of your collection Camp, only one word, SWEET. I'm down sizing as well, but I'm nowhere near being able to collect just one run. I'm basically focused on
ASM, DD, T.O.S., X-Men (all the early titles as well, I have a full run of New Mutants and most of X-Factor as well as a big ol' collection of Uncanny) All American Comics, Batman, Micronauts, and anything with Schoburg as well as about six boxes of stuff I want to read as soon as I have the full run. I envy you for being able to focus the way you are.

Does PGX still exist?

[stupidman]

Yes, PGX still exists. There's an Action Comics # 1 they slabbed up for sale now, price $1.1 million. Much controversy has ensued as to why have PGX slab it.

[strikezonelv]

Hi, and thanks for your help & suggestions. Yes I do live in lost wages, NV. I was thinking of sending in a x-men #20,#94, spect. spidey #1, and possably a house of secrets #92 but it would probably grade about a 5 or 6. I'd have to go through my boxes to see if I have anything worth sending in. I only have 8 long boxes so its not a big collection but when you haven't gone through them in a while it's suprising. Once again thanks for your help. :D

[strikezonelv]

hey camper if a Detective #27, somehow came into your hands do you really think you could slab it? I've been lucky enough to have friends whose collections included books I don't even dream of owning. I've been able to enjoy a superman #1, Amazing Fantasy #15, and a great many other rare books that I'm afraid many people will now, not get the pleasure of enjoying in vf or better condition.

[camper49]

Good point.

I think I'd be too afraid to let a Tec 27 slip from my hands by sending it away to get slabbed. I may never get it back!
I'd have to personally watch it being done.

Another problem is that once it's slabbed, everyone will probably know I have a copy of this book. It would be like winning the lottery where everyone and their dog would be contacting me about buying the book...just a theory though.

[stupidman]

Good point.

I think I'd be too afraid to let a Tec 27 slip from my hands by sending it away to get slabbed. I may never get it back!
I'd have to personally watch it being done.

Another problem is that once it's slabbed, everyone will probably know I have a copy of this book. It would be like winning the lottery where everyone and their dog would be contacting me about buying the book...just a theory though.

If I had a Tec # 27 I would definitely get it slabbed, if only for the Resto check. I know for sure that CGC can detect resto better than I can. I would fly down to Florida and do the Walk Thru service. I would never send it through the mail.

Camper, the only way people would know you have the book is if, and I say this with all due respect, if you opened your big mouth (It'd be hard not to, huh?). CGC is not allowed to give out that info and I have never heard of it happening. When the census was updated, people would know there was a new slabbed copy out there, but wouldn't know who owned it.

Strikezone - I wouldn't think the books you listed in 5.0 or 6.0 grade would be worth slabbing, especially the X-Men # 20 or PPSSM # 1. The HOS #92 or X-Men #94 would be candidates if they were in higher grade (9.0 or better). Check the CGC Census here and you'll see that there are over 100 copies of HOS #92 slabbed in 9.0 or better:

http://www.cgccomics.com/census/grades_standard.asp?title=House+of+Secrets&issue=92&publisher=D%2EC%2E+Comics&year=1971&issuedate=6%2D7%2F71

X-Men #94 has even more - over 400 copies 9.0 or better. There are over 1,500 copies of PPSSM # 1 in 8.0 or better slabbed! That book is very comon, esp. in mid-grade.

Also, have you done any Completed Auctions searches on Ebay for the books you want to slab? That's another great indicator as to whether you'd be wasting your money or not. IMHO, you would be.

[stupidman]

Here's a PPSSM # 1 in 7.5, no takers @ $20. It costs more than $20 to get this comic slabbed, and it didn't sell for less than slabbing cost.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Peter-Parker-The-Spectacular-Spider-Man-1-CGC-7-5-12-76_W0QQitemZ260230476457QQihZ016QQcategoryZ33819QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here's one in 9.4, that sold for $38. The seller probably netted like $10 on the book if he was lucky. Not worth the trouble.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Peter-Parker-Spectacular-Spider-man-1-CGC-9-4-Wh-Pg_W0QQitemZ200215342314QQihZ010QQcategoryZ70962QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[stupidman]

But here's a HOS # 92 in 7.0 that will get about $200-250, which is about Guide anyway, so ??? This one is in the old label so it might be getting a few extra bids b/c of that...

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-House-of-Secrets-92-CGC-7-0-1st-app-Swamp-Thing_W0QQitemZ260231037838QQihZ016QQcategoryZ1259 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[oxbladder]

IMO if you are selling anything but GA and some early SA. It is worth while grading only those books ~8.0 and up and as the books move up towards present that base grade will slide up accordingly.

If it is for your own collection get whatever you want graded.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

I don't know anything about the HOS (new abrv for me) #92, but I can tell you from experience that for some reason X-Men #20 in high, 8.0 not 9.4, grade is common. I don't know why but it is like DD #24 & 138, and T.O.S. 92 and up. Someone must have had a bunch of them. This is not CGC info mind you, I could be wrong, this is just exponential.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you think your grading skills are pretty good, a common book in 8.0, if bought cheap (hopefully at cover) can still be very expensive. I watch all the HULK #181's that go to eBay and am always surprised at the great fluctuations in selling prices. I personally think that watching what happens with that particular comic, while studying all your other comic stuff, will give you a nice idea of how to sell modern comics. In other words, pick a comic that's SA (or a bronze/modern) and hot, the kind that can go for between $75 and $1000, like a Marvel premiere #5, watch everyone that sells and see why some people's sell higher. Unfortunately, what I see a pattern of is bad photos and vague descriptions selling high. Honesty doesn't pay.

[stupidman]

I don't know anything about the HOS (new abrv for me) #92, but I can tell you from experience that for some reason X-Men #20 in high, 8.0 not 9.4, grade is common. I don't know why but it is like DD #24 & 138, and T.O.S. 92 and up. Someone must have had a bunch of them. This is not CGC info mind you, I could be wrong, this is just exponential.

There are over 100 books slabbed in the CGC Census alone for X-Men #20, in 8.0 and above, so I'd agree Silly.

[Nekrokat]

Unfortunately, what I see a pattern of is bad photos and vague descriptions selling high. Honesty doesn't pay.

see that's what i'm afraid of. i was just about to list some comics for the 1st time online and even asked for advice on making the listings here at "Seller's Corner"
http://www.comicscorral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2798

That's the type of listing i always liked buying from. great big scans, and descriptions of flaws i feel that's a efficient "honest" way to list. it's always the type listing i would buy from.
But just couple days ago i was looking at listings trying to get any ideas for mine and almost all i saw was what you stated Silly. vague descriptions and single tiny photos. i did a search for Silver age (admittedly i was scanning every few listings) and it took 11 pages before i found a listing where the seller gave a decent description & even then the single photo (no scans) was ill lit & far away, tho it had the "larger" option which didn't help.

upon searching Completed listing it was much as you state Silly. seemed like the better sellers were ones w/ the least info possible. Many gave no opinion of grade and when it did, it was a casual seller whom i wouldn't trust that much. is it just people kind of dreaming, buying sight unseen so to speak, in the hopes that they'll get lucky? then to embarrassed to leave neg feedback when they get crap? this really has me thinking. i'm about ready to completely change my listing but i hate to, BUT i don't wanna have lousy sales either. yeesh, i dunno what to do now.:confused:

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

I don't either and I've got stuff up right now. What I did was list my stuff several different ways so that I can judge what works best. However, from experience, vague descriptions, crappy images, great feedback (even if it's kinda low 300-500) and the key words "I'm just a silly little dumb dumb and don't know a gosh darn thing about these funny books." And then of course starting the books at a fairly decent price to begin with, is a working combo.

Unfortunately I know because I will buy from people like that when I'm in speculator mode.

You said "is it just people kind of dreaming, buying sight unseen so to speak, in the hopes that they'll get lucky? then to embarrassed to leave neg feedback when they get crap?" Which brings up a good point. If you sell to the speculator, bad photos etc. Will you get more hits, watchers, bids and most importantly, money, than if you sell with big scans and honest explanations pointing out all major defects? And will you as a buyer be willing to let it slide a bit because you knew you were fishing. I know that I speculate a lot, many times I come up with something better than I would have been able to afford from a regular dealer, but it's tricky.

I know one thing, starting your comics too high consistently will kill sales. You can list a few things high, things with low interest but you'll have to throw some cheapies out there. Which may come back to kick you in the ass, I've got a X-MEN #34 out there now with only one hit so far and I started it at .99 cents.

[Nekrokat]

yeah, i'm gonna put some up like i'd planned (informative) and if they do lousy i might just go the dumb "i kno nuting bout comics. here b piktur!" route. hate to tho as it feels crappy.
hey how important is it to have the most current Overstreet PG? i'm using one from 2005. figure much probably hasn't changed since then, but i do want to be able to gauge how well this batch sells so i know if my type of listing is working or go a different route.

[comicstock]

To Nekro- I was told last week after putting some mid-grade Silver Age on a message board that prices in the 2008 Overstreet in many cases have taken a downward hit compared to 2007. I'm getting the 2008 Big, BIG Overstreet Guide (which won't ship, I've heard, for a couple more weeks yet) so I haven't seen the lowered numbers. I did contact a good person here who verified the lessened prices. I'm waiting for the new PG before I put new stuff out for sale. Maybe investing in a 2008 PG this time is the way to go.#oldie#

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

IMO the OPG is usefull as a resource to find key words (apps., 1st's, artists and don't forget to look at the fine print that lists all the artists because sometimes an important artist is not listed in the basic # scheme) but it really needs to upgrade and show prices in terms of how comics really sell. For instance 9.0 to 10.0 in degrees of .2. My #35 guide is totally falling apart, loose pages, detached centerfold, torn cover etc. I'd say it's a poor.

Look to eBay prices to determine real value on anything under $30-$50 in OPG, look at METROPOLIS and the CGC census and the internet in general for info on more expensive books. I don't rely on the OPG anymore for pricing because I remember all the past huge drops that are hard to remember but are indicative of why the OPG is off on prices, like G.I.JOE #2, look at the history of that book.

Anyway, all in all, it's always great to read the news written by the experts in the field.

[stupidman]

IMO the OPG... really needs to upgrade and show prices in terms of how comics really sell. For instance 9.0 to 10.0 in degrees of .2.


I don't think they ever will, for several reasons, including it's too hard to start tracking now, would take up too much space in guide, their graded comics "magazine" the OPCR tanked, and the main reason - GPAnalysis already has the market cornered. If you want the scoop on comics slabbed at these grades (and it will have to only be slabbed comics, never raw), you should get a subscription.


CGC census and the internet in general for info on more expensive books

How would you use the CGC census to determine prices?

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

How would you use the CGC census to determine prices?

I look at the census to determine how many books are out there and that helps me to determine the desire for said books when none have been sold on eBay recently. Truthfully, I use it more for a buyers reference than a sellers, but it can be helpful for both.

For instance if you see a lot of a certain book on ebay but none in high grade and you have one in high grade you can determine if it's gonna go high or if there are already a lot out there. If I'm looking to buy a raw high grade $30-$60 in guide at NM and I see that there are tons of them slabbed in 9.8, then I know I have to recalculate how I bid on it. I don't know if any of that makes sense, but it seems pretty obvious.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Sooner or later someone will create a paid sight where you can go and get eBay sales records for a period of time depending on your subscription rate. I wish I had the savy to do that.

[stupidman]

Sooner or later someone will create a paid sight where you can go and get eBay sales records for a period of time depending on your subscription rate.

If you're talking about CGC books, they already have, a couple years ago. It's not only Ebay, but a network of dealers who aren't pussies (like ComicLink).

http://www.gpanalysis.com/

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Who?

[stupidman]

Did you click the link?

[mordo]

From: http://www.cbgxtra.com/default.aspx?tabid=42&view=topic&forumid=16&postid=45560

Subject: CBG chooses Heritage and Atomic Avenue sales results for price guide
Author Messages

Brent Frankenhoff
Posts: 2770
Posted: 4/24/2008 1:28:33 PM
We're pleased to announce that, in the coming months, we will be using actual sales results, from both Heritage Auction Galleries and Atomic Avenue, as the basis for our monthly price guide.

In a release distributed to many outlets today, we announced:

"Reality-based pricing such as this has never been attempted before," said CBG Editor Brent Frankenhoff. "In the past, price guides for comics have been determined by projected prices or retailer opinion, but we are now in a position to use real market data, based on actual, closed transactions to set the prices in our guide. This data comes from two important sources: Heritage Auction Galleries' Permanent Auction Archives, a major marketplace for high-end Golden and Silver Age books, and sales from the 600,000+ current listings at Atomic Avenue. By utilizing these constantly updated resources, we'll be able to present real prices that reflect real market transactions, providing a more useful guide to collectors."

The CBG price guide is included in each monthly issue of the magazine and lists unslabbed, Near Mint prices for thousands of titles.

Peter Bickford, CEO of Atomic Avenue and Principal of Human Computing, the makers of ComicBase, the world's largest comic-book database, said, "This is something price guide editors have always wished for, and now we've got it: real, verifiable data. Better yet, we can stay constantly updated on what's really happening in the market on an ongoing basis. A lot of comics are going to be making some big moves, but that's what you get when you switch from being a mere price guide to the comics industry's only true market report."

"The injection of reality-based pricing into a market report like this is long overdue," said Heritage Vice-President Ed Jaster. "The Heritage Auction Archive represents the most complete free archive of actual CGC-graded comics sales. By using the archive, which lists actual auction sales results for over 150,000 raw and CGC-graded comics, CBG is working to report, rather than speculate on prices. This will help to provide an accurate picture of the true state of the market. This information can only help both buyers and sellers alike."

[stupidman]

From: http://www.cbgxtra.com/default.aspx?tabid=42&view=topic&forumid=16&postid=45560

Subject: CBG chooses Heritage and Atomic Avenue sales results for price guide
Author Messages

Brent Frankenhoff
Posts: 2770
Posted: 4/24/2008 1:28:33 PM
We're pleased to announce that, in the coming months, we will be using actual sales results, from both Heritage Auction Galleries and Atomic Avenue, as the basis for our monthly price guide.

In a release distributed to many outlets today, we announced:

"Reality-based pricing such as this has never been attempted before," said CBG Editor Brent Frankenhoff. "In the past, price guides for comics have been determined by projected prices or retailer opinion, but we are now in a position to use real market data, based on actual, closed transactions to set the prices in our guide. This data comes from two important sources: Heritage Auction Galleries' Permanent Auction Archives, a major marketplace for high-end Golden and Silver Age books, and sales from the 600,000+ current listings at Atomic Avenue. By utilizing these constantly updated resources, we'll be able to present real prices that reflect real market transactions, providing a more useful guide to collectors."

The CBG price guide is included in each monthly issue of the magazine and lists unslabbed, Near Mint prices for thousands of titles.

Peter Bickford, CEO of Atomic Avenue and Principal of Human Computing, the makers of ComicBase, the world's largest comic-book database, said, "This is something price guide editors have always wished for, and now we've got it: real, verifiable data. Better yet, we can stay constantly updated on what's really happening in the market on an ongoing basis. A lot of comics are going to be making some big moves, but that's what you get when you switch from being a mere price guide to the comics industry's only true market report."

"The injection of reality-based pricing into a market report like this is long overdue," said Heritage Vice-President Ed Jaster. "The Heritage Auction Archive represents the most complete free archive of actual CGC-graded comics sales. By using the archive, which lists actual auction sales results for over 150,000 raw and CGC-graded comics, CBG is working to report, rather than speculate on prices. This will help to provide an accurate picture of the true state of the market. This information can only help both buyers and sellers alike."

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2348945&page=2#Post2348945

Some responses, which echo mine: what the hell is Atomic Avenue? Is it a great idea to use a site that people on the CGC and Ebay boards have never heard of?

[mordo]

They need more sources than just Heritage and Atomic Avenue if they want to create an accurate price guide or market report. If they would agree to share their sales records, Pedigree Comics and ComicLink (why are they pussies? :confused:) are two companies that move a helluva lot of books. CBG should talk to them.

For 'raw' comics eBay is a source that must be included. I would imagine at least 95% of the comics that are sold anywhere in the world are not slabbed. The percentage if probably much higher.

I checked out Atomic Avenue and the site at this point looks like a BIN warehouse. I saw three problems: 1. no scan or photo of the actual comic for sale. You have to take the seller's word on the grade. 2. BINs look over-priced compared to eBay auctions and BINs. 3. selection is extremely limited.

Using Amazing Spider-Man #33 as an example, Atomic Avenue had only two books available, a PGX 6.5 at $118.75 and a 'raw' 2.0 at $19.99. It may be a long while before either book sells.

On the other hand when I did a completed auctions search on eBay I found 8 that were sold in the last 10 days, not including bundled lots:

8.0 $202.50 4/27
5.5 38.00 4/27
5.5 27.59 4/19
5.0 23.50 4/26
5.0 28.79 4/27
4.0* 24.41 4/26
4.0* 16.50 4/19
3.0 14.77 4/19
2.0 12.38 4/27

Being that seller grades tend to be a point higher than actual grades I deducted a point for each book, except for the ones with asterisks because the scans looked pretty close. BTW, the 8.0 on the top of the list was robojo's 9.0.

Anyway, this is the kind of information the average buyer needs when purchasing 'raw' books. eBay has real sales traffic which would be the basis for a decent price guide while Atomic Avenue's traffic is comparatively non-existent. I'll bet comicspriceguide.com has more buyer/seller traffic than Atomic Avenue.

[stupidman]

They need more sources than just Heritage and Atomic Avenue if they want to create an accurate price guide or market report. If they would agree to share their sales records... ComicLink (why are they pussies? :confused:)

Because they won't agree to share their sales records, with GPA or anyone. They'll never agree to give that info to CBG. Hence, they (Josh) are pussies :-) Plus he illegally continues to charge 3% for credit card orders. Stuff like that, there's more if you want some links, I'm too lazy right now.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Man, that's a lot of info to take in? Y'all sure are knowledgeable.