Final Crisis Thread

[marvelguy]

Here's the thread for anything Final Crisis. It can be discussions, covers, pics, etc...

Here's the cover for the first issue.

http://i.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/FCCv1anewsarama.jpg

[marvelguy]

EW.com has the 5 page preview of FC #1.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20198161,00.html

I got to say, the art is gorgeous!

[jaydeebee]

The art looks nice, but the beginning isn't as bombastic as I'm accustomed to when reading a "CRISIS" from DC. But maybe that's a good thing?

[marvelguy]

The art looks nice, but the beginning isn't as bombastic as I'm accustomed to when reading a "CRISIS" from DC. But maybe that's a good thing?

The calm before the storm, maybe?

[jordanscott]

awesome cover!

feeds my love for GL!

[jordanscott]

looks like this will be a good way for me to find out how much I like Montoya as The Question.

[Blah]

I wasn't quite sure about this one, but I enjoyed the DC Universe #0, so I'll probably stick around for the series.

[jordanscott]

Well, two issues in and I'm officially unimpressed.

And apparently most others are as well as this thread hasn't been updated since before #1 came out. lol

A glossed over death, a never was 'super' villain, Libra not really doing much for me, half of issues 2 dedicated to the Japanese wannabes and no apparent direction.

It's got no feel of a Crisis event but more like a badly tagged on ending to Death of the New Gods.

This is why I don't like Morrison. Why couldn't they have let Johns run with this?

[jaydeebee]

Well, two issues in and I'm officially unimpressed.

And apparently most others are as well as this thread hasn't been updated since before #1 came out. lol

A glossed over death, a never was 'super' villain, Libra not really doing much for me, half of issues 2 dedicated to the Japanese wannabes and no apparent direction.

It's got no feel of a Crisis event but more like a badly tagged on ending to Death of the New Gods.

This is why I don't like Morrison. Why couldn't they have let Johns run with this?

I never have understood why Morrison is so universally praised as a great writer. Most of the stuff he writes is incoherent. The only time I can really say I've enjoyed his stuff is on All-Star Superman, and about the best I can say about it is, it doesn't suck. :-?

I was once (or a dozen times) told by, I believe it was Gallinator, a member who no longer posts here, that Grant Morrison is brilliant writer who tends to write over his reader's heads, and whose work must be read again and again to be fully appreciated. (Someone else, I won't say who, also suggested that smoking a bit of weed prior to reading Morrison would help, but I decided against that). It was further suggested that Morrison's work read better as a whole than individually, in other words, in trade paperback form.

In fairness to Grant Morrison, I have found this to be true, although I still think Morrison tends to take for granted that the reader is privy to the voices in his head. A lot of what he writes is so off the wall, that I'm not even sure multiple readings and reefer can explain it to the casual reader.

But the biggest problem I can see with FINAL CRISIS is the mistake that DC and Marvel both continue to make; which is continually focusing their talent into limited series and events rather than putting those creative talents and those story-lines into their ongoing series that they just take for granted that we will continue to buy.

[comicstock]

I enjoy Morrison's All-Star Superman and really enjoyed Animal Man. Doom Patrol received honorable mention.

[Capitalrecoveryman]

I never have understood why Morrison is so universally praised as a great writer. Most of the stuff he writes is incoherent. The only time I can really say I've enjoyed his stuff is on All-Star Superman, and about the best I can say about it is, it doesn't suck. :-?

I was once (or a dozen times) told by, I believe it was Gallinator, a member who no longer posts here, that Grant Morrison is brilliant writer who tends to write over his reader's heads, and whose work must be read again and again to be fully appreciated. (Someone else, I won't say who, also suggested that smoking a bit of weed prior to reading Morrison would help, but I decided against that). It was further suggested that Morrison's work read better as a whole than individually, in other words, in trade paperback form.

In fairness to Grant Morrison, I have found this to be true, although I still think Morrison tends to take for granted that the reader is privy to the voices in his head. A lot of what he writes is so off the wall, that I'm not even sure multiple readings and reefer can explain it to the casual reader.

But the biggest problem I can see with FINAL CRISIS is the mistake that DC and Marvel both continue to make; which is continually focusing their talent into limited series and events rather than putting those creative talents and those story-lines into their ongoing series that they just take for granted that we will continue to buy.

Cue my favorite joke. What did the hippie say to the other hippie at the Grateful Dead concert after the weed ran out? "Damn, this music sucks."

I've liked Morrison at times, especially when he wrote Animal Man, but I'll take the straightforward storytelling in 'Tec any day over the convuluted mess that is Batman.

[marvelguy]

I feel the same way about Final Crisis #1. I could go no further with #2 anyway and Batman is a mess as well. I'm not saying he sucks but patience is key, right? For me, New X-Men has gotten better as the issues kept going for 40 some issues. Like you said, it reads better in TPB format instead of single issues. Who knew about Xorn? Great build-up towards the end. I'll hold out on FC and then read 'em all in fell swoop.

[jordanscott]

So #7 is released tomorrow and this mind bending frolic thru GM's psychoses will be done.

I've stuck with it despite thinking it was horrible. Kinda like a road accident. You want to look away, but...

I'd have to say this was one of the worst written minis in DC history and has absolutely no relevance to any prior Crisis as the title would lead you to believe.

I say that without having read #7 yet obviously, but the preview pages up at newsarama indicating it all comes down to Supermans from around the multiverse just sreams 'crutch' to me.

I gotta say the two best things about this series are the covers and that it's ending.

[jaydeebee]

Not only is FC the main series grinding to an ending tomorrow, but so is FC: Revelations, leaving only the FC: Legion of Three Worlds series still ongoing. Incidently, LO3W appears to be the only FC title directly connected to Infinite Crisis and the only of the bunch that it worth anywhere near the $3.99 a pop price tag.

[jordanscott]

I've found LO3W to be far more entertaining than FC, that's for sure.

[marvelguy]

So #7 is released tomorrow and this mind bending frolic thru GM's psychoses will be done.

I've stuck with it despite thinking it was horrible. Kinda like a road accident. You want to look away, but...

I'd have to say this was one of the worst written minis in DC history and has absolutely no relevance to any prior Crisis as the title would lead you to believe.

I say that without having read #7 yet obviously, but the preview pages up at newsarama indicating it all comes down to Supermans from around the multiverse just sreams 'crutch' to me.

I gotta say the two best things about this series are the covers and that it's ending.

Does that mean Secret Invasion is better? :p

[jaydeebee]

Does that mean Secret Invasion is better? :p

Nope. SI sucked too. :D

[marvelguy]

Nope. SI sucked too. :D

:shock:

The ending did suck, truth be told.

Like everyone else, we're all in the "Marvel" opera where we want to know what's next, even if a story sucked but left a thread dangling...

[jordanscott]

Nope. SI sucked too. :D

I'd say the sucked equally but for different reasons.

:D

[marvelguy]

There's only one event that Marvel has put out that I'm happy with and that's Secret Wars (the 80's version).

[dannyboi1]

I know it wasn't a major event, but rather a tie-in of sorts to Acts of Vengeance, but I really enjoyed the Cosmic Spider-Man storyline back in 1991 (I think, maybe 1990). It was fun and ended somewhat logically.

I enjoyed Civil War until the end. That just killed it for me. But I recall actually anticipating the issues coming out... which were NEVER on time, of course.

[marvelguy]

Acts of Vengeance and the Cosmic Spider-Man stories rocked for me as well as 6 part Death of Kraven. I also enjoyed the 2 part Punisher/Wolverine story in War Journal.

The 80's rocked!!!!

[fulltimer56]

When I was in my LCS looking for SP's Farscape comics I notice that they had some of the Secret Invasion comics on their back wall but since I wasn't suckered oops I mean talked into buying them I don't know if they are variant issues or not. I asked the clerk if they were selling any of them and he told me that yeah they were (but to me there sure were a lot of them there on that back wall! :confused:)!

Linda


I'd say the sucked equally but for different reasons.

:D

[fulltimer56]

I agree with MG but they even printed that one twice didn't they? I think I have two sets of that mini-series?

Linda


There's only one event that Marvel has put out that I'm happy with and that's Secret Wars (the 80's version).

[Capitalrecoveryman]

I really liked Identity Crisis by DC. It was a predictable whodunit, but good. Out of that came the whole mindwiping thing, somewhat explaining the paranoia of Batman and some interesting retconning of villians.

Then, DC did that huge prelude to Countdown for a buck, which I thought was very good. I thought the whole thing with Blue Beetle was poignant.

However, from that point forward, everything to me has been a sharp downward spiral to the point that I rarely buy a DC book*, and if I do, generally if it's a self-contained issue.

*Other than All Star Batty Batman.

[jordanscott]

I agree with MG but they even printed that one twice didn't they? I think I have two sets of that mini-series?

Linda

There was Secret Wars which was an awesome series that I truly enjoyed and still like to read to this day.

Then, they did Secret Wars II and turned the Beyonder into a truly pathetic character in a truly pathetic story.

[SatansProdigy]

Wasn't the Beyonder the one that looked like a 70's porno star?

[jordanscott]

Wasn't the Beyonder the one that looked like a 70's porno star?

I always thought it was more of a Miami Vice extra...but the porn image works as well.

[marvelguy]

Wasn't the Beyonder the one that looked like a 70's porno star?

Yes, I never saw it that way....Boogie Nights, anyone?

[fulltimer56]

Thanks, jordan!! Secret Wars & Secret Wars II. After I posted I went a looked them up in my collection.

Linda


There was Secret Wars which was an awesome series that I truly enjoyed and still like to read to this day.

Then, they did Secret Wars II and turned the Beyonder into a truly pathetic character in a truly pathetic story.

[jaydeebee]

I should now like to declare, with the publication of the final issues of Final Crisis: Revelations and FINAL CRISIS, that Final Crisis and it's subsequent companion titles, with the exception of Legion of three worlds, is the single worst series of comic books I have ever had the misfortune of having bought and read, from any publisher at any time from the being of the Earth until forever! #censored#

Grant Morrison has outdone himself for pure unadulterated wretchedness on this series! The people at DC Comics should be ashamed for allowing this rambling cacophonic collection of disjointed, disconnected, dog doo-doo to have been published using their name and characters! I wouldn't use pages from Final Crisis to light a fire to burn every copy of House of M in existence! IT'S. THAT. BAD! :mad:

What happened in Final Crisis? Well HELL if I can tell you! I've read it, re-read it and I still can't tell you why this was published, other than from the financial standpoint and even that is probably going to backfire because this series has probably so damaged DC Comics reputation in the comics world that they may have to apply for a bailout from one of Marvel's Obama printings! #banghead#

All I can tell you for sure is that DC Comics spent one year doing a COUNTDOWN to the awfulness and 8 months killing off Jack Kirby's classic New Gods characters in the cleverly titled DEATH OF THE NEW GODS limited series, just so Grant Morrison could resurrect them immediately as warped Morrisonized versions of the same characters and create this useless, overpriced, overblown, baloney-festival called FINAL CRISIS! #explode#

If you understand what has happened in this series, could you please explain it to me...? :confused:

(Coming soon, my complete in-depth review of all the Final Crisis series :p)

[jordanscott]

So tell us how you really feel.

I'm going over to the DC boards now to watch the inevitable deathmatch between the Morrison fans/apologists and their opposites.

[marvelguy]

So the New Gods is resurrected? What was the point of it all?

[toz1960]

So jdb,can you tell us how you really feel?

[marvelguy]

I'd recommend reading these books( if you haven't read it yet) to avoid the blues that is the "DC Suckfest".

The Sword
Walking Dead
Conan (I know you're into Conan now)

How abut some Marvel goodness such as Daredevil by Brubaker and Wolverine by Millar? I highly recommend them.

[jordanscott]

I'd recommend reading these books( if you haven't read it yet) to avoid the blues that is the "DC Suckfest".

The Sword
Walking Dead
Conan (I know you're into Conan now)

How abut some Marvel goodness such as Daredevil by Brubaker and Wolverine by Millar? I highly recommend them.

Old Man Logan is awesome!

[jaydeebee]

I'd recommend reading these books( if you haven't read it yet) to avoid the blues that is the "DC Suckfest".

The Sword
Walking Dead
Conan (I know you're into Conan now)

How abut some Marvel goodness such as Daredevil by Brubaker and Wolverine by Millar? I highly recommend them.


Hate Wolverine...HATE!

No, I believe I am just going to give up on new comics(except for Superman of course) completely and concentrate on back issues.

In an age of comics wherein the likes of Joe Quesada and Grant Morrison can be considered at the top of the heap...then that says a lot about what the heap is a heap of!

I figure that by the end of Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds, I will have spent in the neighborhood of $100 on the debacle called FINAL CRISIS. That's taking the following into account:

Final Crisis 1 - 7 $3.99 each, total of $27.93
Final Crisis: Rogue's Revenge 1 - 3 $3.99 each, total of $11.97
Final Crisis: Requiem 1 $3.99
Final Crisis: Resist 1 $3.99
Final Crisis: Submit 1 $3.99
Final Crisis: Revelations 1 - 5 $3.99 each, total of $19.95
Final Crisis: Superman Beyond 1, 2 $4.50 each, total of $9.00
Final Crisis: Secret Files 1 3.99
Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds 1 - 5 $3.99 each, total of $19.95 (still in progress.)

That's $104.76 minus a 10% discount for a total of $94.28 plus VA Sales Tax of 5% which equals $98.99! I could have bought a box full of bronze age goodness for that and had money left over for snacks!

Now true, no one forced me to purchase these comics. However, these very expensive, very poorly written and contrived comics have taught me to hate comics, new comics at least. Much like Darkseid's coveted "Anti-Life" equation, Final Crisis has broken my will...to read new comics that is.

I get the impression that the DC powers-that-be must have rubber-stamped this "storyline" without ever seeing it. Because it's impossible for me to believe that anyone in the editorial department of DC Comics actually saw this and still approved such a mishmash of random ideas which became Final Crisis. While Grant Morrison was huddled in a shack somewhere muttering to himself "Grant Morrison....Super GEEEEEENIUS!", obviously the DC guys were out to lunch in more ways that one! Either that or they are like art critics; they see something they don't understand and immediately think that it must be brilliant, since they are, and that only something brilliant could possibly be beyond their understanding!

Anyone who knows anything about me knows that I have been the DC cheerleader pretty much always...but I can't excuse this blatant money-grab scheme or the absolute lack of quality featured in these numerous and very expensive comics. DC owes the comic readers of the world an apology, and a refund!

Nope, NEVER AGAIN!

[toz1960]

I learned to hate DC comics about the time Crisis came out back in the 1980s.I can't remember what the actual event was though.I took $400 worth of DCs to the flea market and traded them for enough early Thors to finish out my run back to #125.So I know exactly how you feel.Thus I never did get back into DC and the only ones I have in my collection are the new Spirit,althought I would like to re-capture the Perez Teen Titans.

And I am about to the same place with Marvel.All I am getting is the new Thor and Guardians of the Galaxy.Still waiting for Avengers/Invaders and The 12,I havn't seen a new one in a couple of months.What's up with that?

[pasnat54]

This is sounding more intriguing with every post. Is this one of those 'so bad it's funny' things, or it is just without any redeeming qualities whatsoever?

I almost wish I could read it just to see what everyone's talking about. I guess I'll see if secrets bought the title, and borrow it from him.

By the way, Sword is well worth a read. The art is somewhat stiff, the story could be better paced, but it's intriguing and fun, and pretty well out of the mainstream.

[jordanscott]

I'd say it's pretty much without any redeeming qualities.

There's very little that has bearing from one issue to the next. And those items that do still manged to come off poorly due to bad pacing, staggered release schedule and bad plotting.

The plot is either overly convoluted or (if you believe the Morrison fanboys on the DC boards) quite simple, just requiring a bit of thought.

A bevy of deaths though few of them given any real screen time to the point that I wonder if the Hawks really are dead or just poorly handled due to running out of panels.

A 'One More Day' type wish away the past ending that would be bad enough if Marvel hadn't just done that.

And worst of all, Mandrakk, who it appears was the villain of the piece all along, isn't even introduced in the main title until the final issue and instead is revealed in the Beyond x-over.

Actually, worse than the worst of all, is that the story is actually retconned out of existence by it's own conclusion of Supes using the wish machine. But even though Supes apparently has supermemory and can build the wish machine after seeing for just a few seconds he can't with everything back to normal and leaves Bats 'dead'?

This was 'Final (Death of the New Gods, but not quite) Crisis.

[jordanscott]

By the way, Sword is well worth a read. The art is somewhat stiff, the story could be better paced, but it's intriguing and fun, and pretty well out of the mainstream.

The art is one of the primary reasons I like it.

It's not the usual soft core porn tight and fights that's most mainstream hero comics.

[dpxcomicsgirl]

I would just like to take this opportunity to reiterate once again that I hate Grant Morrison's writing, his X-Men were the worst ever, and I am amazed anyone continues to give high profile work to this world-class hack.

Thank you!