Too reasoned and articulate:

[Red Hook]

So I figured I'd quote it here. A great post by Cod/Ox:


As for the original post .. I don't think this forum is bad but it is not as good as it could be either. Yes you can learn alot. Yes you can talk and trade/sell comics or make valuable comics. However, descenting voices have always been treated poorly. Yes they are listened to but they are not respected as much as they should be because many of these hated critics are NOT enemies of CGC. Some critics want it to be a more positive force in the industry.

I think a large amount of cognitive dissonance goes on around here because not only members here but CGC themselves steadfastly refuse to see any negatives of their business. Imo this has resulted in commerce winning out over maintaining the integrity of the industry and, most importantly, the integrity of the books themselves. We all are far to quick to adopt damaging practices to ensure the integrity of our feelings and bottom lines.

Because we can mod a book and get it back to the assumed original condition is this really the best thing for the books or for the image of the hobby? Are we sure that CGC is addressing our concerns? Is CGC transparent enough (considering it is supposed to be in the business of assurance)? Is CGC constantly evolving to ensure that scamming is dectected? IMO just because there hasn't been another Ewert case doesn't mean it isn't or can't happen.

I think sometimes people here, because of the size of the forum and number of "big names", think that the views here are reflective of the majority of collectors and businesses out there. Because it is claimed by many here that this is the best you are going to get in information, etc online that there is not much in the way of venturing out into the real world and actually listening to other voices out there. I don't think people here even realize that MOST of the collecting public out there are not on forums or aware of things like restoration, pressing, scams, etc and the views around them. So to think that this forum speaks for all would be a bold statement.

There is no doubt in my mind that this forum is NOT bad but as Dav said it is not as good as it could be (and was). I too believe that the ability to catch a major scam like Ewert on this forum has been greatly reduced. However, it is not just the "fault" of "CGC fanboys" (sorry to use this term but I could not think of a less derogatory term at this time) but of people like myself who have always been a critic of CGC. Lots of bad blood was spilled and this led to where we are today. A more heavily moderated forum, criticism either cut off or shouted down resulting in many of the people who might have caught an Ewert type scandal either not posting very much or actually being banned from the forum.

IMO this can be fixed but both sides have to listen to the other and to the voices around them before heading headlong into battle over principals that are ultimately damaging for the community as a whole. We have to swallow our pride and think more of the entire hobby. IMO we have let business dictate what we think and feel about comic and collecting them.

Thanks for letting me voice my concerns.

[jaydeebee]

Good stuff.

Has he been banned yet?

[The Charlton Guy]

No, that'll have to wait until the "Three Stooges" report it to the "Powers-That-Be".

[jaydeebee]

No, that'll have to wait until the "Three Stooges" report it to the "Powers-That-Be".

Nyuk nyuk nyuk! Those numbskulls!

[alecholland]

I have to be honest, even though I'm a member of the CGC boards, I'm in the dark on all this type of stuff. And, it's really difficult for someone like me who is not a big time buyer or seller, nor knows any of those folks to keep track of who the good guys and bad guys are in this hobby.

Who are the "three stooges" you speak of, if you don't mind my asking? And, while I'm at it could someone either in this thread or via pm, help me out with who the bad guys are?

Red Hook knows me from the other board. I have no agenda, I'm honestly just curious. Thanks.

[The Charlton Guy]

I have to be honest, even though I'm a member of the CGC boards, I'm in the dark on all this type of stuff. And, it's really difficult for someone like me who is not a big time buyer or seller, nor knows any of those folks to keep track of who the good guys and bad guys are in this hobby.

Who are the "three stooges" you speak of, if you don't mind my asking? And, while I'm at it could someone either in this thread or via pm, help me out with who the bad guys are?

Red Hook knows me from the other board. I have no agenda, I'm honestly just curious. Thanks.


No worries, "Agendas" are fine here.

Welcome to The Corral by the way! #hello#

As for the "Three Stooges", I would rather not say right now, but I'm sure that eventually one of them will make their voice heard. I will say that I'm not talking about the CGC Mods though, as far as I can tell, they are payrolled employees just doing their job.

And as for the "good guys" and the "bad guys", it really is hard to keep track these days, isn't it?

[jaydeebee]

I have to be honest, even though I'm a member of the CGC boards, I'm in the dark on all this type of stuff. And, it's really difficult for someone like me who is not a big time buyer or seller, nor knows any of those folks to keep track of who the good guys and bad guys are in this hobby.

Who are the "three stooges" you speak of, if you don't mind my asking? And, while I'm at it could someone either in this thread or via pm, help me out with who the bad guys are?

Red Hook knows me from the other board. I have no agenda, I'm honestly just curious. Thanks.

Not to worry alecholland, you're Red Hook approved! :cool:

Actually, I only know the identity of 2 of the 3 stooges, I'm anxiously awaiting the reveal of the third. Perhaps CG would be good enough to PM me with the name of the third, or is this going to be like the final Cylon on Battlestar Galactica and I won't find out until the end? :confused:

[Red Hook]

Yeah...I'd be curious to know too. I have no idea. #oldie#

[The Charlton Guy]

Sorry to be so mysterious...

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/the-charlton-guy/pesci.jpg



But I would rather hear from this person first before saying anything more.

A PM would do.

[alecholland]

No worries, "Agendas" are fine here.

Welcome to The Corral by the way! #hello#

As for the "Three Stooges", I would rather not say right now, but I'm sure that eventually one of them will make their voice heard. I will say that I'm not talking about the CGC Mods though, as far as I can tell, they are payrolled employees just doing their job.

And as for the "good guys" and the "bad guys", it really is hard to keep track these days, isn't it?

Yeah, I didn't figure you were talking about the mods. Employees never wield much, if any influence. With regard to "good guys" and "bad guys", the grey area does seem to be getting bigger.

My only "agenda" is that I love comics - I love to read about and talk about them with other collectors.

[The Charlton Guy]

But I would rather hear from this person first before saying anything more...

And I should say that that's not likely...

[The Charlton Guy]

My only "agenda" is that I love comics - I love to read about and talk about them with other collectors.

Join the club!

It's too bad that the other stuff often gets in the way, but there it is.

[Capitalrecoveryman]

So, did anybody read 1985?

[jaydeebee]

So, did anybody read 1985?

I saw this one on the rack, but didn't like the art so I passed on it. So what's the scoop?

[Capitalrecoveryman]

I saw this one on the rack, but didn't like the art so I passed on it. So what's the scoop?

Sorry to derail the thread, but like on eBay, discussions of comic books sink right to the bottom :) , so here goes:

1985 picks up in, well 1985, in a LCS presumably in our world where a kid is being introduced to Secret War. The comic shop owner and employee are stereotypes that we have all seen a hundred times, particularly the employee who rants about Marvel Zombies and why one should only read fine books like Cerebus and Love and Rockets. Classic stuff.

Mild spoiler alert here...


Meanwhile, Marvel villians seem to be showing up at an abandoned house in this town. I'm not sure where this is going, but I'm up for the ride.

[jaydeebee]

Sorry to derail the thread, but like on eBay, discussions of comic books sink right to the bottom :) , so here goes:

1985 picks up in, well 1985, in a LCS presumably in our world where a kid is being introduced to Secret War. The comic shop owner and employee are stereotypes that we have all seen a hundred times, particularly the employee who rants about Marvel Zombies and why one should only read fine books like Cerebus and Love and Rockets. Classic stuff.

Mild spoiler alert here...


Meanwhile, Marvel villians seem to be showing up at an abandoned house in this town. I'm not sure where this is going, but I'm up for the ride.

Maybe if there are any copies left next week, I'll give it a look. Meanwhile, don't worry about derailing a thread, heck they let me be a moderator here, they'll put up with anything just about! :D

But seriously, why not start a thread about it?
(1985 is the year I started working full-time....lousy year! :mad: )

[Red Hook]

I was going to say the same thing... he should feel totally free to start threads on anything that is of interest!

Red

[The Charlton Guy]

Actually, I should probably take the blame for derailing this one.

Here, let's start over with this most excellent post:


So I figured I'd quote it here. A great post by Cod/Ox:


As for the original post .. I don't think this forum is bad but it is not as good as it could be either. Yes you can learn alot. Yes you can talk and trade/sell comics or make valuable comics. However, descenting voices have always been treated poorly. Yes they are listened to but they are not respected as much as they should be because many of these hated critics are NOT enemies of CGC. Some critics want it to be a more positive force in the industry.

I think a large amount of cognitive dissonance goes on around here because not only members here but CGC themselves steadfastly refuse to see any negatives of their business. Imo this has resulted in commerce winning out over maintaining the integrity of the industry and, most importantly, the integrity of the books themselves. We all are far to quick to adopt damaging practices to ensure the integrity of our feelings and bottom lines.

Because we can mod a book and get it back to the assumed original condition is this really the best thing for the books or for the image of the hobby? Are we sure that CGC is addressing our concerns? Is CGC transparent enough (considering it is supposed to be in the business of assurance)? Is CGC constantly evolving to ensure that scamming is dectected? IMO just because there hasn't been another Ewert case doesn't mean it isn't or can't happen.

I think sometimes people here, because of the size of the forum and number of "big names", think that the views here are reflective of the majority of collectors and businesses out there. Because it is claimed by many here that this is the best you are going to get in information, etc online that there is not much in the way of venturing out into the real world and actually listening to other voices out there. I don't think people here even realize that MOST of the collecting public out there are not on forums or aware of things like restoration, pressing, scams, etc and the views around them. So to think that this forum speaks for all would be a bold statement.

There is no doubt in my mind that this forum is NOT bad but as Dav said it is not as good as it could be (and was). I too believe that the ability to catch a major scam like Ewert on this forum has been greatly reduced. However, it is not just the "fault" of "CGC fanboys" (sorry to use this term but I could not think of a less derogatory term at this time) but of people like myself who have always been a critic of CGC. Lots of bad blood was spilled and this led to where we are today. A more heavily moderated forum, criticism either cut off or shouted down resulting in many of the people who might have caught an Ewert type scandal either not posting very much or actually being banned from the forum.

IMO this can be fixed but both sides have to listen to the other and to the voices around them before heading headlong into battle over principals that are ultimately damaging for the community as a whole. We have to swallow our pride and think more of the entire hobby. IMO we have let business dictate what we think and feel about comic and collecting them.

Thanks for letting me voice my concerns.

[Deathlok]

As for the "Three Stooges", I would rather not say right now, but I'm sure that eventually one of them will make their voice heard. I will say that I'm not talking about the CGC Mods though, as far as I can tell, they are payrolled employees just doing their job.


SB, MH, and PL ??

[The Cooler King]

SB, MH, and PL ??

If you mean Steve, Mark, and Paul, I think will see you posting

there again before that happens. CGC staff as it were, has taken

a 'vow of silence' that for now looks to be absolute.

[arexcrooke]

and can you blame them? With every word getting scrutinized and turned and returned until a harmless comment takes on a life of its own.

[The Charlton Guy]

I don't blame them either.

And I'm not accusing them of anything. They're just employees too.

[arexcrooke]

Didnt think you were CG.

[clayface]

No, that'll have to wait until the "Three Stooges" report it to the "Powers-That-Be".

Who are the three stooges? I think I can guess who one of them is and I for the life of me can't figure out why some of these butt licking monkeys become cgc sycophants.

[oxbladder]

Sorry to interrupt but I thought those comments got pretty much passed over and the last I checked no one was bitching about it. Did something change?

[Red Hook]

Actually, it was the fact that no one touched them with a ten-foot-pole that made such an impression on me.

[oxbladder]

I think they were too busy with Leder/Hooker/whoever

[Ijiwaru Sensei]

I'm like alecholland--I'm a small-time collector who has no clue what you all are talking about, but I am curious to know more.