If I want to sell a Grail.

[clayface]

This is a hypothetical question. I have a grail I may want to sell someday. I have problems with CGC, let's call them philosophical differences, so I'm considering sending it to Susan Ciccione for a resto check certification and then to Tracy Heft for the same. It's a book that could fetch 50-75 thousand dollars, or more and a key issue. How much weight would those certificates have on Clink and Heritage?

[Red Hook]

You mean you think they'd actually let you mention the certificates in a Heritage auction description? Has that actually been allowed in the past?

Good question, though.

[clayface]

I would have to insist that it be put in the description of the book, along with a link to the certificates and the comments of the two who had examined the book.

[oxbladder]

I don't think Josh would have a problem with it but who knows with Heritage. You might be able to have something about it in the description though. Mind you that would not be as good as having an actual scan of the certificate.

[disneyteddies]

Why don't you email them and ask? Worst case they don't say what you want but then you can go a different route. What grade do you think it is?

[Mac Man]

Personally... I think you'd do better on C-Link. I don't know that you'll realize the same profits than if you slabbed it, but I think you might do better having Susan look at it and provide the cert.

I can respect having some philosophical differences with someone or something, but on the flipside, when you're dealing with something with this sort of value... lol tempting to make an exception when you think of how much more you'd be able to pull in ;)

[malaprop]

Why don't you email them and ask? Worst case they don't say what you want but then you can go a different route. What grade do you think it is?

I do a fair amount of buying on Heritage, and although I don't know anyone there, IMHO they will not turn down the commission on a $50-75K auction. I doubt they'd complain if you quoted Fanny Hill in the description.

[clayface]

I agree. I do think it would be a sad commentary on the hobby, if a book that was certified by two of the top restoration experts as unrestored and with their opinion on grade, along with a Heritage or clink opinion on grade, if that book wouldn't realise as much of a dollar amount as a slabbed book. Truly sad. I happen to think that under the right circumstace, it could actually fetch more.

[disneyteddies]

Gonna leave us in the dark CF?? I'm really curious which comic it is.... I'm gonna guess Capt. America # 1. If I guess correctly do I win it!! LoL!

[MrBedrock]

This is a hypothetical question. I have a grail I may want to sell someday. I have problems with CGC, let's call them philosophical differences, so I'm considering sending it to Susan Ciccione for a resto check certification and then to Tracy Heft for the same. It's a book that could fetch 50-75 thousand dollars, or more and a key issue. How much weight would those certificates have on Clink and Heritage?
Either C-Link or Heritage would gladly take the commission. And I have no doubt that each would gladly use the certificate in the item description. But what you should really be asking is How much weight will those certificates have with potential purchasers. I seriously doubt that your consignment will fetch as high a price as it would if it were certified by CGC.
If you have a philosophical differences with CGC then why try to sell an item through the very institutions that benefit the most from CGC's presence? Slabbing and auctioning go hand in hand. A 50-75K item is obviously very desirable and you should be able to put a price on it and find a buyer without having to give commissions to any auction house.

[clayface]

Very good, Richard. Let me ask you then, would both resto exams mean as much to you as a cgc certification?

[MrBedrock]

Very good, Richard. Let me ask you then, would both resto exams mean as much to you as a cgc certification?
If you are asking me if I would pay the same for a book based on a resto exam from Susan, Matt, Tracey or CGC I would say certainly. In fact, particularly for golden age, if I am confident in a grade and confident that there is no resto I would pay the exact same amount whether raw or slabbed. With silver age I have a harder time differentiating between upper grades, so the CGCed books may get a bump there.

[clayface]

Then we are of the same mind....err...in agreement, I mean.

[toz1960]

With silver age I have a harder time differentiating between upper grades, so the CGCed books may get a bump there.

All factors being equal,shouldn't a grade be the same no matter the age?

I have read some comments about golden age books being graded on the curve,so to speak but I do not have any first hand info to say either way.I do have 3 graded books from the early 1940s in 9.6 & 9.8 and they look no worse than the 5 year old 9.8 that sits right next to it.

If you know the standard,lets say OPG,and use that,shouldn't silver and gold be the same? or am I missing something?

[stupidman]

All factors being equal,shouldn't a grade be the same no matter the age?

I have read some comments about golden age books being graded on the curve,so to speak but I do not have any first hand info to say either way.


Here ya go, direct quote from Steve Borock:

"EG: Is it true that CGC grades a little more leniently on Golden-Age books...

SB: Yes. Not all comic books are manufactured the same and that has to be taken into account when grading it, that is why it is so important to hire industry experts such as Haspel, Friesen, and Stephan. If you have never handled a GA Terrific # 1 then you have no clue as to the "printing/bindery" defects most copies of it has.

Also, you have to consider a little bit of "eye appeal". A 1" crease on an Action #2 looks smaller and less obtrusive than a 1" crease on a Spidey #38 and the same 1" crease looks even more obtrusive on a Mighty Midget Comics #1. "

http://stlcomics.com/columns/ironslab/IV/

[MrBedrock]

All factors being equal,shouldn't a grade be the same no matter the age?

I have read some comments about golden age books being graded on the curve,so to speak but I do not have any first hand info to say either way.I do have 3 graded books from the early 1940s in 9.6 & 9.8 and they look no worse than the 5 year old 9.8 that sits right next to it.

If you know the standard,lets say OPG,and use that,shouldn't silver and gold be the same? or am I missing something?
I agree in principle with the idea that all ages should be graded somewhat equally, though golden age do have some inherent manufacturing issues which later books do not. But the fact remains that there is some difference in how defects are graded across the ages.
But that is not what I was addressing above. There are many, many silver, bronze and newer books in 9.4, 9.6 or 9.8. There are very few golden age books in these grades.
I am just admitting that I am not very good at telling the difference. I have no trouble telling the difference between a 4.0, a 4.5 and a 5.0. But the difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8 boggles me.

[toz1960]

Yeah,I hear what you both are saying and I understand that particular perspective.May not agree 100% but I understand and this has probably been hashed out thousands of times on hundreds of boards before.
I totally get that 9.6/9.8 statement,it boggles me most of the time too.

[Mariner]

Yeah,I hear what you both are saying and I understand that particular perspective.May not agree 100% but I understand and this has probably been hashed out thousands of times on hundreds of boards before.
I totally get that 9.6/9.8 statement,it boggles me most of the time too.

Just look at how common it has become to see listings on ebay for books graded between 9.2 and 9.8 and the seller is pointing out how HIS 9.8 is better than some OTHER 9.8 and how his 9.4 looks better than a 9.6, and so on. And when you look at some of the scans, you can't help but agree that sometimes they are right.

Then, look at listings where a book was previously graded 9.6 and was resubbed up to a 9.8 and its described as the best possible grade. But wait.. if there were others graded 9.8 when this was graded 9.6, doesn't that mean others were graded better once upon a time, and doesn't that mean if one of those 9.8s was re-graded that it should grade out better?

If you overplay the 9.0-9.8 game you are gambling partly on how the book really compares to others, but more and more you are also gambling on how your label compares to other labels. And you're gambling that somebody won't manage to get the company to give them a better label on a newly graded book. Or even a previously graded book.

[Mariner]

I agree in principle with the idea that all ages should be graded somewhat equally, though golden age do have some inherent manufacturing issues which later books do not. But the fact remains that there is some difference in how defects are graded across the ages.
But that is not what I was addressing above. There are many, many silver, bronze and newer books in 9.4, 9.6 or 9.8. There are very few golden age books in these grades.
I am just admitting that I am not very good at telling the difference. I have no trouble telling the difference between a 4.0, a 4.5 and a 5.0. But the difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8 boggles me.

I would guess it boggles you because there very often is no difference between the book's themselves.

And it boggles you more because sometimes there is a difference, and yet the books grade the same.

And it boggles you even more because sometimes there is a difference, and the book with the obvious problem(s) has a higher number on the label than the book with the lower number,

And it boggles you even more because the numbers themselves can (and do) change on individual books.

It might also boggle you that people buy these things despite the fact that many of the 9.6-9.8 books selling out there are either brand new or new enough that nearly none of the published copies were destroyed. But then I haven't personally seen a listing for one of those 10K or higher 9.8s which discloses the book came from a warehouse find of uncirculated copies.

[clayface]

I would guess it boggles you because there very often is no difference between the book's themselves.

And it boggles you more because sometimes there is a difference, and yet the books grade the same.

And it boggles you even more because sometimes there is a difference, and the book with the obvious problem(s) has a higher number on the label than the book with the lower number,

And it boggles you even more because the numbers themselves can (and do) change on individual books.

It might also boggle you that people buy these things despite the fact that many of the 9.6-9.8 books selling out there are either brand new or new enough that nearly none of the published copies were destroyed. But then I haven't personally seen a listing for one of those 10K or higher 9.8s which discloses the book came from a warehouse find of uncirculated copies.
I just need to quote this post because it's so mind-boggling brilliant.

[arexcrooke]

I would guess it boggles you because there very often is no difference between the book's themselves.

And it boggles you more because sometimes there is a difference, and yet the books grade the same.
That is possible you know.

And it boggles you even more because sometimes there is a difference, and the book with the obvious problem(s) has a higher number on the label than the book with the lower number,
Obvious problems sure. But what about the not so obvious problems. We should probably take those into account too.

And it boggles you even more because the numbers themselves can (and do) change on individual books.
Do this, take 15-20 books of your own, grade them. Put them up for 3-6 months and drag them back out. Re-grade them and see how many you grade the exact same way the second time.

It might also boggle you that people buy these things despite the fact that many of the 9.6-9.8 books selling out there are either brand new or new enough that nearly none of the published copies were destroyed. But then I haven't personally seen a listing for one of those 10K or higher 9.8s which discloses the book came from a warehouse find of uncirculated copies.
No clue as to your last point.

[arexcrooke]

This is a hypothetical question. I have a grail I may want to sell someday. I have problems with CGC, let's call them philosophical differences, so I'm considering sending it to Susan Ciccione for a resto check certification and then to Tracy Heft for the same. It's a book that could fetch 50-75 thousand dollars, or more and a key issue. How much weight would those certificates have on Clink and Heritage?
I think the resto checks from those two will carry a lot of weight.
As far as their grading, well, i doubt it. I know if I was buying a raw book from Clink or Heritage, i wouldnt value thier opinion near as much as CGCs

[68 Guns]

To play devils advocate for a moment.
You submit a book to Susan and it comes back resto free and she grades it a 9.0
You submit it to Tracy and it comes back resto free and called an 9.2.
What do you call it,and how does the buyer know he is getting the book they examined?
CGC would eliminate that last concern.
I'd be worried about a Heritage "employee" buying the book and flipping it an auction or two down the road after getting it CGC'd.
Don't have enough hi end experiance with CL to know if they do things like that.