How do you live?

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

I just watched the HULK, and no spoilers here. I'm just gonna spout. Why read so much and love it so much unless you take it to heart? Are we different because we read the books. I have things I can't say right now, not ideals, not morals, not.....Things....Things I believe in, things I try not to do, things I try to do, I mess up, but.....Are comics that important to y'all as far as what we might call morals?

The hulk fights to not be angry. I fight that same fight everyday it seems.

[Ijiwaru Sensei]

I'm not sure I understand your question.

I think mainstream comic books generally reflect the morals of the popular culture as well as inform readers what those morals are. So, in that sense they can and do influence morals.

[jaydeebee]

I learned my morals and beliefs from family and environment. Learned the hard lessons of life by living them, facing them, going through them and coming out the other side.

Comics are an escape, a hobby, not a teacher. When comics get preachy or start to inject too much realism (dark and gritty) into them, is when I lose interest.

[Ijiwaru Sensei]

I learned my morals and beliefs from family and environment. Learned the hard lessons of life by living them, facing them, going through them and coming out the other side.

Comics are an escape, a hobby, not a teacher. When comics get preachy or start to inject too much realism (dark and gritty) into them, is when I lose interest.


Yes, but all narratives, comics included, are informed by certain worldviews or presuppositions, and thus do teach, directly or indirectly, morality. In other words, every narrative suggests that a particular way of thinking or of living one's life is better than another.

Narratives that are purposefully didactic are torturous, whether they are in print or on film. However, a good story generally doesn't make explicit its message, expecting the reader to interact and interpret the narrative from his or her own knowledge and experiences.

I would argue that comics do in fact teach, or, as I mentioned earlier, reflect the popular morality of the culture. They certainly have underlying worldviews that are expressed in the narratives.

[clayface]

I think comics tend to latch on to the most simplistic pop culture moral trends.

[Quato]

Yes, but all narratives, comics included, are informed by certain worldviews or presuppositions, and thus do teach, directly or indirectly, morality. In other words, every narrative suggests that a particular way of thinking or of living one's life is better than another.

Narratives that are purposefully didactic are torturous, whether they are in print or on film. However, a good story generally doesn't make explicit its message, expecting the reader to interact and interpret the narrative from his or her own knowledge and experiences.

I would argue that comics do in fact teach, or, as I mentioned earlier, reflect the popular morality of the culture. They certainly have underlying worldviews that are expressed in the narratives.

This article I scanned led to a revelation. It reviews the first Spiderman movie.

http://topps13.tripod.com/temp/Spiderman_Article_Stomp_and_Stammer.pdf

I call that the best Spiderman article I've ever read. It made me realize how much Marvel Comics did shape my sense of right or wrong. I think Ditko inspired me more than I knew.

Hulk is my favorite character. I like the fact that Bruce Banner's goal is to never get angry, but once he does it is a growing and unstoppable force that will destroy any obstacle in the way. In other words, don't piss him off or you WILL regret it.

Q

[Capitalrecoveryman]

Wow, great link Quato. Thanks for posting it.

I don't have any deep insights to add, just that I can click on cnn.com at any particular moment and read about the John Couey's of the world. Then I can pick up the latest Punisher Max and good old Frank blows those guys to pieces, which is somewhat therapeutic.

[kenmacny]

I got my fingers crossed that Angelina Jolie is going to show up at my house someday with a whole new set of morals...

[Capitalrecoveryman]

With my luck, she'd come to my house to drop off an extra kid for me to raise.

[Capitalrecoveryman]

OK, that was just wrong. One ticket for me please.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

No that was good, really funny.

[marvelguy]

I learned my morals and beliefs from family and environment. Learned the hard lessons of life by living them, facing them, going through them and coming out the other side.

Comics are an escape, a hobby, not a teacher. When comics get preachy or start to inject too much realism (dark and gritty) into them, is when I lose interest.

I agree with you on that stance, as I am the same way. Life is the greatest lesson you'll ever learn anywhere.

[jaeldubyoo]

How do I live? Certainly not by letting comics telling me how I should live. I take comics for what they are, escapist fantasy fare written for entertainment. I do not ask myself “What would Superman do?” when caught in a moral dilemma. I don’t need to learn from the Hulk how to keep my anger under control. It’s fiction, not true life. Comic are not my moral compass.

You learn from family, friends, school and/or church. You learn from real life experiences. Role models should be real people. Why would you look for guidance in comic books? Think about it, are you’re going to deal with real life issues by relying on what you read in comic books? Are you going to pattern your life after fictional characters?

Get real.

[Ijiwaru Sensei]

How do I live? Certainly not by letting comics telling me how I should live. I take comics for what they are, escapist fantasy fare written for entertainment. I do not ask myself “What would Superman do?” when caught in a moral dilemma. I don’t need to learn from the Hulk how to keep my anger under control. It’s fiction, not true life. Comic are not my moral compass.

You learn from family, friends, school and/or church. You learn from real life experiences. Role models should be real people. Why would you look for guidance in comic books? Think about it, are you’re going to deal with real life issues by relying on what you read in comic books? Are you going to pattern your life after fictional characters?

Get real.

Yet literature has traditionally been the moral core of a liberal arts education. Don't underestimate the power of fiction whether written or filmic. Fiction often helps the individual makes sense of life and its absurdities.

Christ Himself taught through the use of fictional narratives. The Bible is a book full of narratives.

Comics, obviously, are not the Bible, but they do reflect contemporary values and can shape the values of those who read them.

[jaeldubyoo]

Christ Himself taught through the use of fictional narratives. The Bible is a book full of narratives.

Comics, obviously, are not the Bible, but they do reflect contemporary values and can shape the values of those who read them.

Christ's fictional narratives, like in his parables, involved down-to-earth situations and characters. A parable like the Prodigal Son, could very well happen in real life. I don't recall him using super-powered beings fighting each other to illustrate his points. Where were the mutants in his stories?

I seriously don't think I would rely on comic creators for moral direction, nor would I recommend it. Comic do not necessarily reflect contemporary values. They reflect the writer's values. After all , the writer is writing the stories, not society.

[Ijiwaru Sensei]

Christ's fictional narratives, like in his parables, involved down-to-earth situations and characters. A parable like the Prodigal Son, could very well happen in real life. I don't recall him using super-powered beings fighting each other to illustrate his points. Where were the mutants in his stories?

My point was that narratives do inform and affect our morality. The Bible is filled with narratives that include the miraculous, narratives that go beyond our everday experiences: cataclysmic world-endangering floods, languages being changed overnight, seas being parted, a single man taking on a thousand others with a donkey's jawbone, a man being swallowed by a very large fish; even Christ's narrative about the rich man and Lazarus, which gives a picture a hell. All of these stories go beyond regular human experiences and in that sense are similar to the fantastic narratives found in comic books.


I seriously don't think I would rely on comic creators for moral direction, nor would I recommend it. Comic do not necessarily reflect contemporary values. They reflect the writer's values. After all , the writer is writing the stories, not society.

I think you are right in that most people would not consciously build their morality on comic books; however, a person's value system is often subconsciously shaped by what they read. In other words, you are what you read.

I would argue that mainstream comics most assuredly reflect contemporary values, maybe not your values or mine, but they are a good measure of where our popular morality is. Mainstream comics are a popular medium. Marvel and DC are trying to sell as many comics as possible--that's why these companies will tend to play it safe. They try to appeal to the broadest audience the medium will allow. Most readers don't want their values challenged; they want them reinforced. It is most uncomfortable to have one's values and presuppositions challenged. That's why in-your-face comix tend to have smaller audiences.

Look at the history of comics. They follow national trends. During WWII comics were very patriotic, even propagandistic in their portrayals of Germans and Japanese. In the 50's comics reflected the nation's fear of communism. The 60's and 70's saw social issues like racism addressed, again following national trends. Today's comics are very reflective of postmodernism and nihilism. Mainstream comics follow cultural trends and therefore are, in my opinion, a fair reflection of the culture's values and morality.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

I didn't want to insinuate that comics TEACH morals, but reinforce them for folks. It's perhaps not so much a question of base learning from the books as it is having parables in comic form, which are perhaps harder to pinpoint than in quotes or from storylines of epic poems or tales. I think there are things that I've had reinforced through comics. For instance I remember a lot of anti-gang stuff in comics such as Power Man and DD that perhaps, along with what was going on while I was growing up in the 80's and 90's got me to really not want to be in a gang.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

I may have less positive family influence than some and am always curious as to why I did not make the same detrimental decisions that many around me, some dead now, have made.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Sorry if the original post was confusing, I've been very morose and.... Well, that's a perfect word for how I've been feeling lately.

[Ijiwaru Sensei]

I may have less positive family influence than some and am always curious as to why I did not make the same detrimental decisions that many around me, some dead now, have made.

That topic might make a good thread itself. I know a lot of the kids I grew up with in my neighborhood are either dead or in jail. It is amazing how different our lives often become.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Yeah, it's sad to see so many dead, but truthfully what really makes me sad is to see so many walking dead. For me, it's all crack and alcoholism. I go to work in the morning and see guys I grew up with buying 4 packs of Red Dog and I have guys coming to my warehouse to borrow or to ask me to look up what something is worth on the internet. But those of us who are still strong fight the good fight.

When I was in my teens and twenties they would all make fun with that "ARE YOU SERIOUS!" "YOU PAID HOW MUCH FOR COMICS!" As well as other things I did. I may not be rich now, or have a family or a real career, but I am not dead or a member of the walking dead. And more importantly, at least for me, I didn't have to leave my environment all together and pretend I was something that I'm not. One day, and maybe that day was yesterday, I hope to influence some more kids who were like me, and let them know that the good fight can be fought where you are.