Have these been trimmed?

[toz1960]

I got these 2 books today from the same seller.I was only expecting one copy but was pleasently suprised to find an extra copy.Upon close inspection both appear to have been trimmed.See what you think.

This copy is 10 3/16 inches tall and almost 6 3/4 inches wide.The front cover is slightly less and does have some roughness to it cear the top.Woops! Just found the proof.The top of the pages have a tiny "tab" that wasn't completly cut and almost looks like they started to cut and changed their minds and started over.This can barely be seen in the scan as I just now found it.




http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t216/madrigal2112/MTMcopya2001.jpg




This copy in much more noticable.The front half is a full 1/16 inch less than the back.If you will notice both books you can see a small bump about an inch from the bottom corner.Both books look like they came out of the same batch as the top and bottom edges match in terms of texture.



http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t216/madrigal2112/MTMcopyb001.jpg




Seller is from Lakeview Mn(any other known trimmers live around there).Item # is 230292832107.He had sold 3 of the same copy about a month ago.I also got a patsy Walker #121 in the lot but it doesn't look trimmed.

Total invested is about $5.00 each.They are otherwise beautiful books.I intend to keep them but he is SURE going to be told about it and I probably will put the "trim" info in his feedback.

I know these are now pretty much worthless.If not for the trim I was going to have them graded.That's out.If I start hollering refund I'll probably sould like I'm whining and I would like to hang onto the Patsy Walker.Any thoughts before I do anything?

[The Charlton Guy]

Wow. That is blatant.

But looking at his other items, it could be that he has little or no knowledge of comic books.

He could be oblivious to trimming.

[toz1960]

Wow. That is blatant.

But looking at his other items, it could be that he has little or no knowledge of comic books.

He could be oblivious to trimming.

Possibly.I thought of that after I read what I written.I just emailed the guy that won the others to see if they had been trimmed.I'll let you know if he replies.

[The Charlton Guy]

He had sold 3 of the same copy about a month ago...

That interesting. Possibly an old news-stand find. But to trim them up before sale? That's pretty wierd. Especially with a secondary title.

I'll also be interested to hear what his other buyers have to say.

[Quato]

I got these 2 books today from the same seller.I was only expecting one copy but was pleasently suprised to find an extra copy.Upon close inspection both appear to have been trimmed.See what you think.

This copy is 10 3/16 inches tall and almost 6 3/4 inches wide.The front cover is slightly less and does have some roughness to it cear the top.Woops! Just found the proof.The top of the pages have a tiny "tab" that wasn't completly cut and almost looks like they started to cut and changed their minds and started over.This can barely be seen in the scan as I just now found it.




http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t216/madrigal2112/MTMcopya2001.jpg




This copy in much more noticable.The front half is a full 1/16 inch less than the back.If you will notice both books you can see a small bump about an inch from the bottom corner.Both books look like they came out of the same batch as the top and bottom edges match in terms of texture.



http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t216/madrigal2112/MTMcopyb001.jpg




Seller is from Lakeview Mn(any other known trimmers live around there).Item # is 230292832107.He had sold 3 of the same copy about a month ago.I also got a patsy Walker #121 in the lot but it doesn't look trimmed.

Total invested is about $5.00 each.They are otherwise beautiful books.I intend to keep them but he is SURE going to be told about it and I probably will put the "trim" info in his feedback.

I know these are now pretty much worthless.If not for the trim I was going to have them graded.That's out.If I start hollering refund I'll probably sould like I'm whining and I would like to hang onto the Patsy Walker.Any thoughts before I do anything?

I think it's wrong to say they are worthless. You don't see those every day and collectors of this type of item should be willing to pay what you paid to simply have a copy. I've got some trimmed EC's and I appreciate them just as much as untrimmed ones.

When I rant that high grade collectors are talking down low grade books (whether intentionally or not)... this is an example.

Yes it's trimmed. Are people collecting comics, or are they doing process capability studies on the printing press, handling, inventory turn process? I will ask this question until people are sick of it.

Q

[razorz000]

It's hard to tell just by the scans but it's possible that they could be miss rap. :idea:

[toz1960]

I hear you quato.I didn't really mean worthless and they do look great.Here is what the other buyer had to say when I emailed him.

"Dear toz1960,

Yeah, all 3 trimmed down the edge from top to bottom on front and back covers revealing the pages slightly. For $7 or $8 that I think I paid, these copies display great with glossy covers though. When this seller stated NM or brand new, or whatever he said, I smirked and placed a bid for like $8.65 or something(you never know what you'll get), won the books and sure enough they're trimmed and possibly pressed too. I can guarantee that this won't be the last time I'm scammed like this, but I've also got some great books for pennies on the dollar so it balances out."

Seller is 5 for 5 on trimmed books.Hmmmm.

If you look close razorz,you'll see the trim.

[razorz000]

I hear you quato.I didn't really mean worthless and they do look great.Here is what the other buyer had to say when I emailed him.

"Dear toz1960,

Yeah, all 3 trimmed down the edge from top to bottom on front and back covers revealing the pages slightly. For $7 or $8 that I think I paid, these copies display great with glossy covers though. When this seller stated NM or brand new, or whatever he said, I smirked and placed a bid for like $8.65 or something(you never know what you'll get), won the books and sure enough they're trimmed and possibly pressed too. I can guarantee that this won't be the last time I'm scammed like this, but I've also got some great books for pennies on the dollar so it balances out."

Seller is 5 for 5 on trimmed books.Hmmmm.

If you look close razorz,you'll see the trim.


O.K. now that you pointed it out I see it ...:o

WOW--That is bad but presents nicely

[marvelguy]

Sounds like you got a book from a defective stack from the printer or it could have been a "practice" book.

[kullerfilms]

Do the pages make a v shape when you look at the outer edge straight up from the top or bottom? This is caused when the pages are folded by the publisher, and usually is not present when the outer edge has been trimmed. If it was trimmed, the outer edge will be square. Early silver Marvels were very cheaply made, and you can see all kinds of defects that look like trimming. Size is absolutely not an indication of trimming, and large fluctuations are common.

[toz1960]

[quote=kullerfilms;47669]Do the pages make a v shape when you look at the outer edge straight up from the top or bottom? This is caused when the pages are folded by the publisher, and usually is not present when the outer edge has been trimmed. If it was trimmed, the outer edge will be square. Early silver Marvels were very cheaply made, and you can see all kinds of defects that look like trimming. Size is absolutely not an indication of trimming, and large fluctuations are common.[/quote

The are square,no v at all.On both books the pages to the front of the centerfold are shorter than the ones after the centerfold,one more pronounced than the other.On the one that is worse,this difference get larger toward the bottom of the book.

The other buyer described the same thing.It is possible they were cut this way but the dead give-away is the small tabs at the top of the pages on one book.It looks like it was cut maybe 1/8" and the trimmed closer to the edge.

Look closely at the scans and you can see what I'm talking about.

[Shadow-wolf]

Without having the book in hand I can't say for sure whether or not they are trimmed, but from looking at the scan they certainly do not look it. In the 60's Marvel was notorious for poor printing, they used poor paper stock and many times the blades used to trim the books during production were dull which led to many printing decefts such as marvel chips and pre chips. I've personaly expereminted with trimming books and I can say unless these were trimmed with a dull butter knife the cut would be much cleaner. That's just my opinion though, if you really want to know you could send the books to a restoration artist and have them check.

[toz1960]

Here are more of the same issue for sale right now by the same seller.
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-MILLIE-THE-MODEL-MARVEL-COMICS-GROUP-12CENT_W0QQitemZ230302959226QQihZ013QQcategoryZ397 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&campid=5335809863&toolid=10001&customid=&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2F3-MILLIE-THE-MODEL-MARVEL-COMICS-GROUP-12CENT_W0QQitemZ230302959226QQihZ013QQcategoryZ397 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[Shadow-wolf]

Here are more of the same issue for sale right now by the same seller.
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-MILLIE-THE-MODEL-MARVEL-COMICS-GROUP-12CENT_W0QQitemZ230302959226QQihZ013QQcategoryZ397 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&campid=5335809863&toolid=10001&customid=&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2F3-MILLIE-THE-MODEL-MARVEL-COMICS-GROUP-12CENT_W0QQitemZ230302959226QQihZ013QQcategoryZ397 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Probably part of some warehouse or back stock find.
NO MUSTY SMELL. That's...err nice to know.