Discussion on Ages of comics.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

I just sent this PM to Hoss

Hey Hoss, I've been over here more lately and I have a question for you. I don't even memorize the grades that much but why is there no copper age thread. Isn't it a real age? Also, so two questions really, could you please add the years of the ages to the threads titles please, it would really help me to remember what they are.

I'm really bad at the ages so I'm asking y'all for some schooling. I know there is plenty of info on this but I get lost sometimes and could use some help.
COVER SCANS ARE REALLY HELPFULL.

[fulltimer56]

I'm with SS on this one. I have trouble remembering what the dates are for the ages too.

Linda

[oxbladder]

Victorian Age 1828-1883

Platinum Age 1883-1938


Gold Age 1938-1946 - I would tend to put the start for the Golden Age at 1933 with Century of Comics, Famous Funnies, etc since they were the first comics that came out with a Standard format or even 1935 with New Fun Comics #1 which is the first DC Comic and the first book with original content. Many of the the previous eras had odd formats (dimensions). However, the long accepted start date is with Action Comics #1 in 1938.

Atom Age 1946-1956 - Often not used and thus the golden age can extend to 1956.

Silver Age 1956-1970 - There is valid debate that 1954 should really usher in the Silver Age as this is the year that Atlas (formerly Timely) rebooted the old Timely heroes. This was short lived (most titles did not last into 1955) though and it was not until Showcase #4 which is reintroduced the Flash did the Super-heroes really take off again.

Bronze Age 1970-1980 - Not really sure why 1970 is chosen for the end of the Silver and start of the Bronze Age. It seems to be the only era that actual time periods are the determiners and not specific books.

Modern Age 1980-present - Copper Age is also sometimes used with dates ranging from 1980-199x.

[aarondawe]

I always thought that Conan #1 was the signifier for the Bronze age for people that try to determine this stuff -- or the last Kirby issue of the FF. The Kirby one makes more sense to me in a way than Conan, but I'm only repeating what I've heard.

Aaron

[The Charlton Guy]

Bronze Age 1970-1980 - Not really sure why 1970 is chosen for the end of the Silver and start of the Bronze Age. It seems to be the only era that actual time periods are the determiners and not specific books.



I could not agree more. One of my pet peaves regarding the supposed 1970 onset of the BA is that the very best Silver Age artists and writers of the Silver Age continued some of their best work in 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, hell. right up to 1977 or later.

Witness Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko (at Charlton in the early 70's, of course), John Romita, Neal Adams, Giordino, Infantino, ALL of the guys and gals (let's not forget Marie Severin and Ramona Fradon) continued some of their best "SA" work into the 70's.

SA to BA is a VERY vague and arbitrary time separation now that we have the liberty to look back after 30 years.

I have a very hard time NOT calling a key book by Romita, Adams or Kirby from 1972 or even 1975 a SA book.

If I had to draw a BA line? I'd tend to agree with Conan #1 and BWS's awesome illustrative innovations there in later issues, but then again, I might even push the envelope as far as Miller's DD #158 (though that is admittedly really pushing it).

At the bare minimum, I think that the SA should be "extended" to 1972.

[oxbladder]

Well I think it should not go specifically by dates but by notable basic changes. The divide for the first two eras is logical and makes sense the golden age should start in 1933 when comics all started to be standard format. The GA should end in 1956 as Showcase #4 is a very good turning point again and also most publishers had standardized there page counts and dimensions again to a form that held right through to the early to late 60's when they started reducing the dimensions again.

I am Okay with the bronze age starting in 1970 because this was around the time that many other popular characters started appearing such as Conan, Man-Thing etc. 1980 is a good cut off time for the Bronze age.

In the end I really do not see much use for the Age designations as they really do not mean that much i the end. Take away Gold/Silver/whatever you still still have the same books with the same historical importance. Eventually we will have to have a gazillion era names and constant pointless battles on just what the criteria/cutoffs for the eras are.

[The Charlton Guy]

In 100 years, it will all be a moot point.

[oxbladder]

I beg to to differ the Lawrencium Age will be the grandest (LOL)

[The Charlton Guy]

No, no, no....

The Charltonian Age will be all that will be worthy of rememberance.

Bunch of pagans in this joint....I tell ya...

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

I dont know much, but I know that there is a dif between the SA and The Ga but I am not sure if it is really important because I dont' have the books to show me such. I am slowly learning. I am somewhat aware of the 50's change between the "new" found $ of costume folks that soon changed to cowboys and then war heroes, ex. All American... But, thanks to Stupid and Disney's addd ons to the comic/artist thread I am learning about the men who made the decisions as to what was popular and what was not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Schwartz
Did we the readers, and much props to those who came before, or did the directors make what is now the DC/Marvel Universe our playground in justice and equality and the America way?

[stupidman]

SA to BA is a VERY vague and arbitrary time separation now that we have the liberty to look back after 30 years.

Ya think? I think the opposite - 30 years of hindsight makes it easier to see the separation between the two. These all happened within a year or so of 1970 (iirc):

1. Comics go from 12 cents to 15 cents
2. Kirby goes from Marvel to DC (Fourth World).
3. Comics finally grow out of Silver Age silliness with the release of Green Lantern/Green Arrow # 76 - first "Relevant" book.
4. Conan # 1. Hugely popular non-superhero comic. Very well written as well as drawn.
5. The relaxing of the Comic Code - werewolfs, vampires, and Swamp Thing etc are allowed into comics.
6. Stan Lee publishes 3 issues of Spider-Man without the CCA because of a drug storyline.
7. Julius Schwartz took over as editor of the Superman comics.


I also think the Bronze Age goes from 1970 to around 1984/5 or so. (Up to Marvel's Secret War, then Dark Knight, Watchmen, Crisis, etc... start a new era).

"Witness Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko (at Charlton in the early 70's, of course), John Romita, Neal Adams, Giordino, Infantino, ALL of the guys and gals (let's not forget Marie Severin and Ramona Fradon) continued some of their best "SA" work into the 70's."

But your list is all artists. A lot of the drastic changes came from the writers/editors and from outside forces (CCA, etc). But I agree, I think that artists can span across different Ages, because it was the writers that really ushered in the Bronze Age. The only time both art AND stories made a quantum jump in quality was from the Golden Age to the Silver Age http://boards.collectors-society.com/images//graemlins/grin.gif

[The Charlton Guy]

Good points all Stu.

I am predjudiced because if I had my way, it would STILL be the Silver Age (ahhh...for a World Without Magna...).

And yes, I am likewise prejudiced towards artists, as my enjoyment of comics, particularly SA books, but BA too, is based primarily on artistic quality or lack thereof (80%) over story content (20%).

Plus, I tend to appreciate BAD writing a lot more than good writing. And there was still PLENTY of silliness and just plain bad writing in the 70's as well, the examples you name are all landmark issues, but there were plenty of hack titles too.

And I agree, the actual date or "Age" is not really important. 1969? 1970? 1972? That's what I mean when I say that in 100 years none of the nitpicking will matter (more likely in twenty years).

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Well, I have to say that if there was an age category that is not really represented well it is the advent of the alternative B&W comics that came around the time of TMNT #1. I know that at the time I was reading a lot of comics that were not the two majors, such as the the Aircel titles, that for a punk rock kid like me were the first time any media was genuinly representing what I was into at the time. I also would like to point out that Comix (underground) are in no way given any respect in the comic book ages.

I am still a fan of titles like Fish Police and wonder why that time period is somewhat ignored. After all, if the crash that came in the 90's is due to anything it must be the "rare" issues that were so saught after, and sold in the comics themselves by Eagle and American comics. Look at some of your old 90's ish issues and your sure to find add's for all those take offs of TMNT, Eagle (the comic), Aircel titles and all the Grips like issues.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Yes, I know the 90's crash was majorly caused by the "Direct distubution" brought on by Diamond and Marvel. But school me.

[aarondawe]

Well, I have to say that if there was an age category that is not really represented well it is the advent of the alternative B&W comics that came around the time of TMNT #1. I know that at the time I was reading a lot of comics that were not the two majors, such as the the Aircel titles, that for a punk rock kid like me were the first time any media was genuinly representing what I was into at the time. I also would like to point out that Comix (underground) are in no way given any respect in the comic book ages.



Well, if the bronze age cutoff is around 1985 or so, as has been discussed, then the books your talking about all neatly fit into the modern age (TMNT was first published in '84, wasn't it?).

Funny you should mention Aircel etc., as they were a large part of the reason why I came back into collecting after a 3 year hiatus in the '80's.

Aaron

[oxbladder]

Well, I have to say that if there was an age category that is not really represented well it is the advent of the alternative B&W comics that came around the time of TMNT #1. I know that at the time I was reading a lot of comics that were not the two majors, such as the the Aircel titles, that for a punk rock kid like me were the first time any media was genuinly representing what I was into at the time. I also would like to point out that Comix (underground) are in no way given any respect in the comic book ages.

I am still a fan of titles like Fish Police and wonder why that time period is somewhat ignored. After all, if the crash that came in the 90's is due to anything it must be the "rare" issues that were so saught after, and sold in the comics themselves by Eagle and American comics. Look at some of your old 90's ish issues and your sure to find add's for all those take offs of TMNT, Eagle (the comic), Aircel titles and all the Grips like issues.

Well I wouldn't want to put an age name to the rise of the independent publishers because it actually started long before before the explosion in the 80's. Books like TMNT just brought much deserved attention to Independents. I know for a fact that Cerebus was the first book that showed folks that independent publishing could be successful and that came out LONG before TMNT.

If you want to really get into discussing Independents then surely one would have to bring in Undergrounds because they were truly the first Independent books to break the mold. Books like Cerebus and TMNT were much cleaner mind you but I would not doubt that without undergrounds you would not have had many people willing to risk working outside of the mainstream.

I consider the rise of indies just to be one of the events/movements within the modern/bronze age.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

aarondawe

Why dude, tell me why...
"Funny you should mention Aircel etc., as they were a large part of the reason why I came back into collecting after a 3 year hiatus in the '80's."

oxbladder
"surely one would have to bring in Undergrounds"
Do I feel a new comic cover thread coming on?

[aarondawe]

aarondawe

Why dude, tell me why...
"Funny you should mention Aircel etc., as they were a large part of the reason why I came back into collecting after a 3 year hiatus in the '80's."



In late '83 I gave up on Marvel and went cold turkey (Also I was saving to buy an electric guitar). Marvel seemed to be going in circles at the time. I hated JRJR on X-men, John Byrne stopped drawing backgrounds (he was my favourite artist at the time) and my other fav titles were just recycling ideas.

Fast forward a few years and I was hanging out with a budding artist and he wanted to publish his own book (and have me ink his art) and we looked at a lot of the indie books out at that time, like Aircel (Warlock 5, Samurai and Dragonring), Comico (Elementals), Dark Horse, TMNT, and Fish Police. DC was going through a bit of a renaissance at the time with Miller's Dark Knight and the Watchmen etc. It was a pretty exciting time for books -- creativity and quality were the emphasis. Eventually I started buying again (after mostly reading my friend's books for a short while). I don't remember a lot of the books from that period, but I do recall it being exciting and it revitalized my interest.

Aaron

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Hey guys, I think we're getting to something here. 1984/1985 seems to really be a changing point in comics and perhaps movies as well.
Heavy Metal (1981)
Fire and Ice (1983)
Kaze no tani no Naushika (warriors of the wind/Nausicaä ) (1984)
Something was deffinetly happening in 1984, what was it?