Yeah, COMEEK IS probably PRESSING.....

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

I've changed my mind on this, I don't want to start this up.

[oxbladder]

I can't tell anything from those scans with regards to pressing. Unless there is before and after images I wouldn't want to even claim a books is pressed. I have heard all the claims from either side of the pressing issue and I have decided that it is very hard to detect pressing despite what people like Hammer/Comic Kays claims and there are always telltale signs like pancaking and such. I have seen sample of books that are known to be pressed and you would never be able to tell.

Because pressing is known to be almost impossible to detect CGC does not consider dry pressing without disassembly restoration. So don't expect them to confirm or note anything to this regard.

The detached staple is not a sign of pressing imo. I cannot fathom how it would happen unless the pressing was done poorly and then you would be able to tell in other ways. Other than the detached staple this book looks to be way better than a VG so I would have to consider that in grading.

I am not saying you cannot have the opinions you do these are simply comments. However, not showing this seller this thread or allowing him a rebuttal is unfair. I have seen alot of people raked across the coals on forums and it bothers me when they are not allowed to defend themselves. Some people are given a terrible image and they may have not done anything wrong necessarily. People get so angry that even gestures meant to appease are taken as admissions of guilt .... almost any amends are consider that instead of just trying to satisfy a customer.

With regards to beng satisfied with eBay experience I have these rules:

1. If unsure ask for better images
2. ask questions
3. If 1 and 2 are not satisfied then don't bid
4. Set a maximum limit for your online spending (I won't spend more than $250 and even then I rarely spend over 100)
5. Consider all books to be .5 to 1 full grade lower than stated unless there is evidence to the contrary
6. Don't bid more than you budget. If you don't want to spend x dollars on a book in x grade then don't. Just wait and maybe you will be surprised and get the book for a steal another time or at a local store.

Most people usually expect the claimed grade and my experince is not to trust anyone and that way you don't feel angry or disappointed for spend outside the market value.

[stupidman]

Because pressing is known to be almost impossible to detect CGC does not consider dry pressing without disassembly restoration.

It's actually worse than that - CGC does not consider dry pressing with or without disassembly restoration as long as you do it right. CGC made everyone on their Board look like idiots by keeping this a secret for 7 years. For the past several years people have debated non-disassembled pressing vs disassembled pressing, and how one was Resto and the other wasn't. Then Borock comes on and says that disassembly and reassembly of a comic book is NOT restoration! Makes all the previous deliberation moot. Bulllllllshit.

Here's my definiton of Resto: anything you can do with your own 2 hands, fine. Flick a piece of dirt off, wet your finger and press back a corner crease, fine. But if you use any type of tool, machine, implement, device, instrument, utensil, appliance, mechanism; contraption, contrivance, gadget, or gizmo - that's Restoration.



I am not saying you cannot have the opinions you do these are simply comments. However, not showing this seller this thread or allowing him a rebuttal is unfair. I have seen alot of people raked across the coals on forums and it bothers me when they are not allowed to defend themselves. Some people are given a terrible image and they may have not done anything wrong necessarily. People get so angry that even gestures meant to appease are taken as admissions of guilt .... almost any amends are consider that instead of just trying to satisfy a customer.

I understand, but this situation was different. There was proof positive that Lauterbach is a scumbag on several different threads regarding several different books. Those were the links I posted that Silly read. Being able to defend themselves is irrelevant, for two reasons.
1.) There was proof positive. There were no doubts. No need for rebutals.
2.) As witnessed with Matt Nelson's postings on the CGC Board, having these dirtbag dealers defend their practices is an effort in futility. All he did was deflect and confuse, and change the subject, and then offer free pressing. He would not address the important questions asked (particularly his alledged shill "arse-man" and about disclosure) and just made things worse. I trust the Board Detectives more than the assholes trying to squeeze .2 out of a book and submitting it without its Pedigree status just to cover the work done.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Sorry, a little bit too sure of myself when I started this. I need more info on pressed books before I accuse anyone or agree with other people's accusations. I cannot freaking believe that no one in the whole comic world is willing to show before and after pix of the effects of pressing a book.

[oxbladder]

No need to apologize. I am one that can accept that there are plenty of people that do not like pressing and consider it restoration. That is why I try and promote disclosure. This way those that don't mind it will still buy while those that do can either bid accordingly or not at all.

As far as I am concerned both view are acceptable and disclosure, be it for pressing or restoration, will satisfy both. I cannot fathom why people would oppose disclosure as it is all about appeasment which, besides money, is an important aspect of doing business. Afterall, if you do not have a happy customer ... which you were clearly not. Then you have to do whatever it takes to do better the next time or smooth the situation over so that you will retain that customer.

Like I said you are justified in your POV since the books were not what you were expecting. I was also not trying to say these books are NOT pressed because I just don't know. I also know nothing about comgeek and his history.

I do believe in hearing his view just because how someone responds can tell alot about them. It puts you in good light too. Face to face confrontations are not fun sometimes but in the end we all learn something ... hopefully.

I personally would be interested in seeing scans of your books and isolated areas that you think show sign that the books were pressed (or may have been). You have the advantage over us all in having them in your hands and if they do end out being pressed then whatever you can show us will be for the better.

[oxbladder]

Oh yeah. IN the height of the pressing debates over at the CGC forums Matt Nelson put an offer out to show people the results of pressing hopefully to provide evidence that some of the indicators that the anti pressing side said were signs were not all that common.

I will look later tonight to find that thread as I found it very interesting. (I don't know if it will help you at all though)

It would be cool if this thread actually provides us all with some evidence that we may be able to use for possibly detecting pressing from scans.

Personally I would prefer not to have a book that has not been worked on intentionally but I am not opposed to professional restoration and pressing provided it is used for conservation and not simply to make one more money.

[SILLYSHIP--pirate eye--]

Hmmm, looks like I have a lot of scanning to do for this site this weekend.

By the way
"6. Don't bid more than you budget. If you don't want to spend x dollars on a book in x grade then don't. Just wait and maybe you will be surprised and get the book for a steal another time or at a local store."

I don't go to them. We only have one in Santa Fe and I think it's super lame, and I never go to Albuquerque, the only other big city in NM basically. I kinda hate comic shops, they can be cool, but not too often and I haven't seen one around here that was cool in a long time.

[stupidman]

I cannot freaking believe that no one in the whole comic world is willing to show before and after pix of the effects of pressing a book.

That's because you can't tell pressing from a scan.

[oxbladder]

Yeah I know how you feel there. Most of the old stuff I am looking for I unfortunately have to buy on eBay usually because they only really show up there. Most of the local shops are pretty much are devoid of early bronze and silver books here ... at least on display or in the bins and most is not what I collect :( I hate eBay but for now I have to resort to shopping there for much of my missing Wonder Womans

That being said I still budget. For Wonder Woman I pretty much know the going market values both high and low so I usually have to play a waiting game and buy on the down curve.

[stupidman]

Oh yeah. IN the height of the pressing debates over at the CGC forums Matt Nelson put an offer out to show people the results of pressing hopefully to provide evidence that some of the indicators that the anti pressing side said were signs were not all that common.

Exactly, that was the problem. The debate wasn't that pressing "pancakes" a book or that pressing ruins comics or anything like that. That was Matt's deflect. The discussion was about disclosure of pressing and the moral and ethical ramifications as well as the monetary aspect of it. Then Matt totally hijacked these thoughts by offering free pressing to show it doesn't hurt the book.

Matt argues that pressing doesn't harm a book and most people don't care. Ok, fair enough. Then people ask Matt "Well, if it doesn't hurt the book, and people don't care, why don't you reveal it upfront?"
Then Matt says "Hey, who wants 3 books pressed for free?"
Samr tactic with the "who is arseman" thread. He would never flat out say "no that's not my shill ID."

To find his threads, search CGC for "restoman" and click the "show all posts" link.

Good points too, Oxbladder, I totally agree on the disclosure stuff.

[oxbladder]

This thread has a TON of sidetracking arguements in it but there are a few before and after images from the pressing experiment that members of the CGC forum took part in. You will see from a number of them just how hard it would be to tell fron the after scan alone that the book was pressed.

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1257760&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

Sadly I would have to say this "experiment" was disappointing though because so few people bothered to post their before and after images ... probably because ANY thread that vaguley touched upon pressing would get side tracked at this time.

[disneyteddies]

Here is some more info on pressing...

http://www.classicsincorporated.com/services_pressing.htm

Take a look at the pictures at the top right for a cool story about Action Comics 1-18.

[stupidman]

Here is some more info on pressing...

http://www.classicsincorporated.com/services_pressing.htm

Take a look at the pictures at the top right for a cool story about Action Comics 1-18.

Yeah, that's Matt Nelson, the King of Pressing. He presses books and then sells them without disclosing any info. He's "Spectre52" on Ebay. He also lives like 5 miles from Heritage, but no one can prove that he's the one picking out, upgrading, and getting Blue label jumps for Heritage. He's an all around shady character.

[disneyteddies]

Good to know, I just found that site the other day and had a good read.