new 52, the feelings on the number 2's.

[Evil Parsnip]

After what I thought was a generally good set of number ones with the new 52 I have to say that the number twos failed in general to live up to the first issues. Especially on the books I thought I really liked right off the bat.

Certain books were better than others. I did like the Teen Titans, Aquaman, Swamp Thing, Demon Knights various Justice Leagues and a handful of others, but where i felt that 75% of the books were solid after issue number one, i felt the number plummeted dramatically after issue 2.

Am I the only one to feel this way?

[comicmanshipper]

After what I thought was a generally good set of number ones with the new 52 I have to say that the number twos failed in general to live up to the first issues. Especially on the books I thought I really liked right off the bat.

Certain books were better than others. I did like the Teen Titans, Aquaman, Swamp Thing, Demon Knights various Justice Leagues and a handful of others, but where i felt that 75% of the books were solid after issue number one, i felt the number plummeted dramatically after issue 2.

Am I the only one to feel this way?

it becomes so hard to gauge the monthly comic book reading experience at times , when every book it just a chapter in longer story. I think nearly all of the 52 titles are 5 to 6 issue arcs.

I found the best way to read these monthlies was to re-read the 1st issue right before reading the 2nd. I'll probably re-read the #2's before i start each #3 (actually i'm sure i will). It does make the experience more complete , plus gives you a little extra bang for your $$.

With various Batman titles (and other heroes appearing in a few titles) it is easier to follow.

As far as the titles ups and downs , i think one of the things missing with the #2 issues was the newness factor , each book was no longer a brand new thing , with a brand new universe to discover. (it will be 15-20 years until we get to enjoy a reboot again). Nothing really sucked this month , which on the whole , is a major achievement for 52 titles)


Some books were much better with the 2nd issue , Legion Lost should have been the #1 "#2 crackled, a real page turner" by the far the biggest upgrade

Red Hood #2 was a step up, as was Captain Atom #2 , Hawk and Dove #2 was a real surprise, Firestorm was better also


the Batman books pretty much stayed the same , above average (including the spinoffs : BOP , Nightwing , Batgirl , Catwoman ) Batwing was the only one that i noticed a step down, but still was above average , Batwoman is the best comic published, right now

likewise on the 4 Supes titles , all holding their own (you did loose the newness factor with these 4 books, as all 4 are radical changes from previous Universe)

the 4 GL titles also are very solid

3 JLA titles were all good (again these were such a shakeup from the old Universe , that the newness aspect is gone-but still real good )

Aquaman , Flash are excellent and are
highpoints for me along with Swamp Thing , I Vampire , Animal Man , Wonder Woman , Batwoman , Frankenstein , OMAC , Jonah


holding in fine shape: Stormwatch , Static , Grifter , S Squad , Res Man , Demon Knights , Deathstroke , Blackhawk , Deadman , Hawkman , Titans , Legion

these were a step down , but still decent (and if they were Marvel titles would rank in their top 10) : MOW , Green Arrow , Mr T , Voodoo (its funny 3 of these titles are getting shakeups in creative teams , so DC noticed too)

Again , on the whole though , nothing really sucked

[pasnat54]

I've only read a couple, but I felt like Demon Knights #2 was a pretty good. However, it's part of a longer arc, and it felt a little like a placeholder. It's setting up some big action, but won't pay off for a few issues.

With Men of War, I didn't really care for the mystic mountain goddess element. I was looking for more of a traditional war comic, not one with fantasy elements.

[nocutename]

I love the Demon but ended up not picking up the second issue to Demon Knights because it feels like it will be a good trade read. In fact the only book I kept was JLD because I felt after reading it, I was satisfied with the issue and still wanted more. There are very few comic writers that can keep single issue interesting and still tell a bigger story over a few issues. I am hold out for the trades on the DC books now. I hope that they don't do the hardcover thing and release cheaper softcovers first.


I've only read a couple, but I felt like Demon Knights #2 was a pretty good. However, it's part of a longer arc, and it felt a little like a placeholder. It's setting up some big action, but won't pay off for a few issues.

With Men of War, I didn't really care for the mystic mountain goddess element. I was looking for more of a traditional war comic, not one with fantasy elements.

[custodes]

I'm droppin' them like hotcakes. Still reading Superboy but, disappointed. Legion and JLAs still good. Like Stormwatch and Frankie/Shade. Still reading Supes and Action and batbooks not based on femaliens. Birds of Prey I'm sticking with.Swamp Thing is good. I'm enjoying the new Marvel post Fear books better than DC stuff this month. I wasn't happy with that super female in Men of War either.

[comicmanshipper]

I'm droppin' them like hotcakes. Still reading Superboy but, disappointed. Legion and JLAs still good. Like Stormwatch and Frankie/Shade. Still reading Supes and Action and batbooks not based on femaliens. Birds of Prey I'm sticking with.Swamp Thing is good. I'm enjoying the new Marvel post Fear books better than DC stuff this month. I wasn't happy with that super female in Men of War either.
i can not get into the Marvel stuff , the last few months , i did like the new Spidey book though , i do prefer the DC stuff (by a wide margin) , i think the main reason is why the books are somewhat connected , the Marvel stuff is so connected, its hard to keep everything straight

PS really good final episode of B&B tonight , i'm gonna miss the show

[custodes]

i can not get into the Marvel stuff , the last few months , i did like the new Spidey book though , i do prefer the DC stuff (by a wide margin) , i think the main reason is why the books are somewhat connected , the Marvel stuff is so connected, its hard to keep everything straight

PS really good final episode of B&B tonight , i'm gonna miss the show

I didn't know it was cancelled. And I was half asleep and deleted it by accident. :-(

Marvel is very interconnected lately. Some of the smaller books are really good though. Some mini-series connected or not. The 7 issue "Homefront" was great (about what was happening to the average folks while this whole crazy Fear Itself thingee was keeping our heroes attention.) Mostly with Speedball. Good stuff. Made you feel something, emotionally.

[comicmanshipper]

I didn't know it was cancelled. And I was half asleep and deleted it by accident. :-(



new Batman show coming late next year CGI , anyone watch the GL preview, way better then the film, weird how DC's animated shows are all good and the only films they get right are Batman (hoping the new Superman film is done right) . Marvel films on the whole are good , but the animated shows are pretty weak , hopefully the new Spidey show is good, they have Timm helping , so that is a start

[custodes]

new Batman show coming late next year CGI , anyone watch the GL preview, way better then the film, weird how DC's animated shows are all good and the only films they get right are Batman (hoping the new Superman film is done right) . Marvel films on the whole are good , but the animated shows are pretty weak , hopefully the new Spidey show is good, they have Timm helping , so that is a start

I DVDed the GL cartoon but, haven't watched it. Still enjoying Young Justice this season. Today I read Batman and Robin 2 & 3 and Batman 2 & 3 and liked them both. I'm going to stick with them for a while. Red Hood 3 was good. Not sure about the art. Don't hate it but, it's iffy for me. Also read JLA 3. I do like it. Art and story but, the way I fly through it bugs me. Can't even remember what I read 2 hours later. Will stick with it though. For now.

DC does have most of the good cartoon market.

Oh, also read Amazing Spider Man for the first time in years. The last Spider Island book and the Epilogue and the first new story. Dan Slott is a damn good writer. I was over Spidey years ago but, really enjoyed this. Looking forward to the TPB. Feel I've been missing out now.

[custodes]

I read the second and third issues of Animal Man and Swamp Thing. The Red and The Green. I think they are headed for a big crossover. Gonna keep both books for now. Flash seems the most daring and innovative to me still, reread issue 2. The art just amazes me and the story is adding to the Flash mythos, it seems.

Read GL 1-3...good stuff and going to keep on reading. Red Lantern 2 was good. Haven't picked up any other Lantern books.

[jaydeebee]

More and more I'm finding DC's New 52 to be more icing than cake, not that I don't love icing, I mean...come on, IT'S ICING! Still I find I am losing interest in some titles way too fast, particularly Justice League, a title which is all icing.

[Evil Parsnip]

Have to agree with you there. Much ado about nothing seems to be the bulk of the titles. A handful are keeping things interesting, but fewer and fewer with each issue.

I rather enjoyed the third issue of Captain Atom a lot, the Animal Man-Swamp thing event looks to be good and JLA, were the top of the heap.

[custodes]

I'm enjoying the Animal Man -Swamp Thing, The Red and The Green and The Rot thing too. It seems an organic, natural direction from the earlier books' stories.

I would like to take the time and mention Judd Winicks' Batwing. A Bat-family book taking place in Africa. Some really brutal stories (as Africa only can be brutal) and some great art.

Judds' world has a newer superhero entering his prime and with Batmans' help cleaning up his country of warlords etc... It comes with a pantheon of former heroes who were once in a supe group called The Kingdom, a generation older than Batwing, who may have done some very bad things in the name of peace and good, and in doing so made their world better. Now things are turning bad again...

The first 3 issues are inside art ( and covers)by Ben Oliver and colored by Brian Reber. Amazingly beautiful art. The 4th issue is by Chriscross with Ryan Winn inking, cover by Oliver. It is more straight forward, traditional storytelling art. I miss the Oliver but, I can see how different teams can fit better for different stories. Ones where more wording and dialogue comes in handy. All the covers are true artworks.

I'm white myself, but, these stories are some new ground in what might no-longer be called minority character books. No whining about this white devil or that. Just characters living their lives in an dangerous enviroment. We've come along way since those early Denny O'Niels GL+GA teamups. I'm going to follow this book

Guess, I've been saving up some books for a read run. Also, digging Stormwatch ( a bit different for a cosmic book) and Static Shock. Static is in NYC now and it is an improvement. I would not mind seeing other heroes move into "the real world" with NY a nice place to start. Our hero is anything but, hip and wisecracks like a teen Spidey. The villains are the hip ones and the book is modern in a way the young will like but, with adult writing.

[comicmanshipper]

I'm enjoying the Animal Man -Swamp Thing, The Red and The Green and The Rot thing too. It seems an organic, natural direction from the earlier books' stories.

I would like to take the time and mention Judd Winicks' Batwing. A Bat-family book taking place in Africa. Some really brutal stories (as Africa only can be brutal) and some great art.

Judds' world has a newer superhero entering his prime and with Batmans' help cleaning up his country of warlords etc... It comes with a pantheon of former heroes who were once in a supe group called The Kingdom, a generation older than Batwing, who may have done some very bad things in the name of peace and good, and in doing so made their world better. Now things are turning bad again...

The first 3 issues are inside art ( and covers)by Ben Oliver and colored by Brian Reber. Amazingly beautiful art. The 4th issue is by Chriscross with Ryan Winn inking, cover by Oliver. It is more straight forward, traditional storytelling art. I miss the Oliver but, I can see how different teams can fit better for different stories. Ones where more wording and dialogue comes in handy. All the covers are true artworks.

I'm white myself, but, these stories are some new ground in what might no-longer be called minority character books. No whining about this white devil or that. Just characters living their lives in an dangerous enviroment. We've come along way since those early Denny O'Niels GL+GA teamups. I'm going to follow this book

Guess, I've been saving up some books for a read run. Also, digging Stormwatch ( a bit different for a cosmic book) and Static Shock. Static is in NYC now and it is an improvement. I would not mind seeing other heroes move into "the real world" with NY a nice place to start. Our hero is anything but, hip and wisecracks like a teen Spidey. The villains are the hip ones and the book is modern in a way the young will like but, with adult writing.
pretty much on the same page with you , great minds think alike? (LOL)

[custodes]

pretty much on the same page with you , great minds think alike? (LOL)

So true my friend so true...#professor#:wink:

[custodes]

Wrong company but, Marvel is in the process of making a brand new super hero in the new book called Battle Scars. His name is Marcus Johnson and he is a US Army Ranger. Only two issues so far and we do not know what is going on but, I have been looking forward to every book in suspense. Can't wait another month to see Sgt Johnson and his pal Cheese kick Taskmasters' butt.

He is special but, we do not know why yet (except he is a great fighter and a good person.)

Read Deadman 1-3...like it

[jaydeebee]

I bought "The Ray" number 1 (of 4) yesterday. It's not officially part of the New 52 although I guess it takes place in the DCnU. I thought the art was okay, but the story was disjointed and I didn't understand why the main character needed to be naked for most of the issue...not really sure who this book was being marketed to.

[custodes]

I bought "The Ray" number 1 (of 4) yesterday. It's not officially part of the New 52 although I guess it takes place in the DCnU. I thought the art was okay, but the story was disjointed and I didn't understand why the main character needed to be naked for most of the issue...not really sure who this book was being marketed to.

I just read The Ray #1 and really liked it. I rushed online to be devastated by your review.:eek: Well, not really devastated but, a bit surprised. I thought it was very funny. I'm looking forward to Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Greys' next issue. The war with the girlfriends' parents. The giant sea jelly fish part was disjointed, as you say. Like they just needed a brief super-fight. I would have done that part differently. Why bother with a fight at all? For the kids, I guess. However, really liked the rest of it.

The ending sort of crept up on one though. Amongst the humor would be blood curdling death and horrorshow groovies. I think I will enjoy the new villain.

Was left with the feeling a bunch of really nice supporting characters for the DC Universe, even though they are earth-pigs. Wish it was on going.

[jaydeebee]

I just read The Ray #1 and really liked it. I rushed online to be devastated by your review.:eek: Well, not really devastated but, a bit surprised. I thought it was very funny. I'm looking forward to Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Greys' next issue. The war with the girlfriends' parents. The giant sea jelly fish part was disjointed, as you say. Like they just needed a brief super-fight. I would have done that part differently. Why bother with a fight at all? For the kids, I guess. However, really liked the rest of it.

The ending sort of crept up on one though. Amongst the humor would be blood curdling death and horrorshow groovies. I think I will enjoy the new villain.

Was left with the feeling a bunch of really nice supporting characters for the DC Universe, even though they are earth-pigs. Wish it was on going.

I was in a really bad mood (it is the Holidays after all) when I wrote my thoughts about THE RAY #1, maybe I will reread it after the first of the year and see if it improves.

[custodes]

I was in a really bad mood (it is the Holidays after all) when I wrote my thoughts about THE RAY #1, maybe I will reread it after the first of the year and see if it improves.

I don't have any emotional ties to the Rays' past. Either Golden Age or later. I know it sometimes bothers me when they change a super heroes identity sometimes. For example: If they made the real Spider Man a Puerto Rican kid I would be so pissed. ;-) But, who cares about Ultimate anything?

I enjoyed the issue on a "new super powered person being created" level. Also, I am quick to laugh at a nude persons' embarrasmment (as long as it is not my own.)


What has really disapointed me is Superboy. Just finished 1-4 and and it still seems to be boring to me. Don't like or care about any of the people who are supporting characters. Just a bunch or scientists still. All boring and all trying to manipilate him.And they are not even the same ones. He is still almost without morals and has no one who he can call a friend. Just "dispossable plot semi-villains."

The story should have moved by now. Friends,home and likable supporting cast we are interested in. Come on Scott Lobdell. This book is bad!

[fastballspecial]

Overall I have enjoyed the new 52. The only title I didnt care for much was Animal Man. The art was just too bad for me to follow the story with. 80s child and I need at least decent art for me to follow a story this wasnt good enough in my opin.

Love Batgirl, Batman, and so Suicide Squad although I am losing some interest.

Liked Titans, Detective, JLA, JLA Dark, All GLs except Red, and Green Arrow.

Everything else I can read for the most part nothing is horrible although I didnt read the Image books that came over.
Very successful start for them overall. Wish Marvel would do something like that.

[dc kev]

JLA Dark, Aquaman and Demon Knights are the only must-reads for me right now. And it's a shame as I've followed the Bat-familiy of books pretty faithfully since the mid-1970's, but I just can't find myself spending $2.99 for each Bat-book in their current incarnations of lame writing or lame art or in some cases both. It kills me to see them on the shelf and not buy them, but maybe when they hit the 50-cent boxes I can catch up.

[nocutename]

JLA Dark, Aquaman and Demon Knights are the only must-reads for me right now. And it's a shame as I've followed the Bat-familiy of books pretty faithfully since the mid-1970's, but I just can't find myself spending $2.99 for each Bat-book in their current incarnations of lame writing or lame art or in some cases both. It kills me to see them on the shelf and not buy them, but maybe when they hit the 50-cent boxes I can catch up.

I have very little interest in anything Gotham myself. I keep saying I will hit it up in trade but I don't think I will. There are so many other DC titles I want to read more.

[Evil Parsnip]

sadly the bat books are among the best of the bunch. I see a lot of cancellations in the future.

[Quato]

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[dc kev]

I don't necessarily look at it as "quitting" DC; rather, this new launch has given me the opportunity to work on my back issues! :p:p

[toz1960]

Pardon the interruption as I am not a new DC collector but I do have a question.

How is this reboot/restart/relaunch any different than the one DC did back in the late 80's?

[Quato]

--

[Quato]

--

[Quato]

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[comicmanshipper]

We know order numbers increased. We also know they bought TV ads promoting it on the IFC. Why do I feel that their advertising cost probably negated any money they made off of extra sales? Did they really gain more customers, or did they just coax the same ones into buying more copies?

Q
In talking to local store owners , i think it has been more of bringing lapsed readers / buyers back. I think the sales patterns has varied from store to store though. Some stores tell me sales are down some from the 1st month of the relaunch , but still better then Marvel on a per title average ( Marvel just floods the market, i think they probably publish nearly twice what DC does title wise , monthly). Some stores have told me sales have decreased from #1 , but such a small % , that they are more then happy with the sales. Some stores have told me sales are about the same since the 1st issues, or actually on an uptick from the 1st issues , most specified Animal Man, Detective , Swamp Thing and a few others.

After 4 months you can call the relauch a success , though figuring out long term levels is impossible. One thing all the stores i have talked to have stated that DC sales are way up compared to the pre-launch era (varies anywhere from 30 to 100%. The titles like the Batman Family titles , the Superman titles , GL titles , JL titles , all exceed just about any Marvel title right now ,even with the 4th issues.

here's a couple of quotes that kind of illustrate what i have been hearing in talking to local comic book retailers , different people thenhow i talk to , but i am kind of hearing the same thing and i really respect Hibbs opinion as he has what i would safely call the best "new issue" comic book store i have ever seen in the country (too bad i can only get there once or twice a year , since it is on the opposite coast) (all of the below taken from Heidi's blog)


Brian Jacoby from Secret Headquarters
(http://www.shqcomicsandgames.com/)I’m going to disagree with a few of your premises in the column above the numbers, in a “Your Mileage May Vary” kind of way. I know I’ve posted some of this on the Beat before, but I’m elaborating some, for context.
My regular subscription customer base grew by 20% from August to October. Most of these people were lapsed comics readers (“I haven’t bought a comic since Event X”), but some of them were people who never bought western comics before.
99% of these subscribers are still around, 4 months later. They’ve dropped titles they didn’t like, and tried new things from DC and other publishers. They are enthusiastic about comics in general. Justice League is currently my best-selling title, and the subs for it keep growing. The last time that happened for a new title was for Buffy Season 8, which held my most-subscrived-to record until Justice League, which is beating it by 25%
Now, I ordered heavily for the relaunch. My Sept. orders for DC were 290% of my normal DC orders. I worked hard to suggest titles to regulars and new customers that seemed to fit their interests. I ended up selling out of little over half of the #1s in the first month.
From what I’ve gathered through talking to the other store owners in town and their customers, NONE of them went as heavily into the relaunch as I did. I’m the highest volume shop in town for new comics, and all three others (soon to be only 2 others) sold out of most of their #1s each Wednesday. Two of them openly criticized the relaunch to their customers, and to me, before it happened. One of them continued to complain about it afterwards. I’ve heard (second-hand, unfortunately, but from multiple sources) that most of the “new” business left the other stores by issue #3.
I also pushed the minis (Huntress, Penguin, Shade and The Ray) the same way I pushed the New 52, and got similar results, and needing to reorder all of them multiple times.
What I’m saying in my long-winded way, was that stores got out of the relaunch what they put into it. Those who were positive about it and supported it saw their customer base grow. Those who did nothing, got no more than a temporary and minor boost.


Joe Field (http://flyingcolorscomics.com/) :
It’s interesting.
To read the lead on this story, it makes it seem The New 52 isn’t doing well. Yet, we see increases from the previous incarnations of these same characters of 2x-6x at the top end and a still loftier line average for the bottom end sellers.
Anecdotal, sure, but when I look at the mini-series numbers for Huntress and Penguin, they are 15-20% higher than my sales history would indicate.
Say what you will about content—that’s always up for debate— but there’s just no way these numbers look bad when compared to what came before.
From a sales standpoint, from a marketing view, The New 52 has brought a lot of energy to the market–and a lot of new and different eyes to see comics’ full spectrum, whether super-hero, indie art-comics or anything in between.
Hopefully, that’s something we can all agree is a good thing.

Scott, Dragon's Den (http://www.gamersgambit.com/) says:
12/30/2011 at 7:16 pm (http://www.comicsbeat.com/2011/12/30/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-november-2011/#comment-154302)
I want to echo both Brian and Joe here:
* I have had the same success as Brian. Almost word for word, really. We were the only local store to go deep on The New 52; awe talked it up, we were positive, we put together specials and it’s all worked out great. At the very least, our DC numbers have doubled, and our non-DC numbers are up significantly as well.
* I agree with Joe that the numbers look better than the way they’re being presented. I’m not surprised by the titles towards the bottom of this list, but Huntress and Penguin would be doing much MUCH worse, pre-New 52.
* There’s some incorrect information being presented as facts at the beginning of this article. Justice League, Batman, Action Comics, Flash and Green Lantern do NOT all have 1-in-25 variants. Since the launch of The New 52, The only title through issue #4 to have a 1-in-25 variant has been Justice League. The rest have had (in addition to the 1:200 variants) “match-to” variants.
I’m not pointing this out to be snippy, but because the difference between a match-to and 1:25 (or 1:10, 1:15, 1:20, whichever) is important to retailers. The match-to variants for those titles are targeted to the lowest selling New 52 title for that particular week. For example, Hawk & Dove come out the same week as Action Comics. H&D is my lowest selling title for that week, so I can only order as many of the Action match-to variants, as I can of Hawk & Dove. In order to get more of the match-to variant, I need to order more H&D, NOT – as in the case of the 1:25 – order more Action Comics.
Implying that those four titles’ numbers are boosted by the prospect of additional 1:25 variants is actually the opposite of what’s happening. Certain low-selling titles are ordered in higher quantities, so that retailers can meet demand on the match-to’s.
This is an important distinction, and I would recommend keeping that in mind when compiling these charts in the future.
* This is more of the “your mileage may vary” than anything else (thanks for that, Brian), but most of my Marvel numbers are staying steady or seeing a slight increase, only because I’ve picked up so many new customers over the last couple months. If it wasn’t for The New 52, I think many of Marvel’s books would be seeing serious steep decline(The Avengers books, especially).
So, this then: “this success doesn’t seem to be affecting, for good or ill, any other comics beyond the initial 52 titles; and three, the number of new comics readers the “New 52″ has brought into comics stores seems negligible, overall.”
.. is not a statement I can agree with whatsoever. I don’t know whether, in the long run, The New 52 will help comics sales -increase- tremendously, but I know that they’ve stopped single issues sales from further decay.
Some food for thought.
-Scott
Dragon’s Den
Poughkeepsie, NY


Brian Hibbs (http://comixexperience.com/):
Returns aren’t free — they have a restock fee attached to them, in addition to the incoming freight, extra work of stripping covers, etc. There might still be a LITTLE overbuying-on-purpose going on, but it’s going to be a pretty negligible amount — no (sane) retailer is going to bring in goods they know for a fact they can not sell, so they can pay fees to send them back!
Also: JL, BATMAN, ACTION, FLASH, GL — DC’s entire top five — are NOT returnable, whatsoever, even FOR a fee. In point of fact, I’m not seeing any really clear market distinctions in buying patterns between the returnable, non-returnable, and super deep discount titles on the chart at all, which would strongly suggest that returnability is just no factor whatsoever at month 3.
To echo my fellow retailers — this is just a success, there’s no other way to call it, and this is the first month ever I started to think “Marc-Oliver needs to stop writing these, he’s too jaded — and it shows!”
-B

Duncan, Pegasus Books says:
Duncan, Pegasus,
I have no particular reason to root for DC, and I do carry a large selection of independents. Sales in one area of the store help in keeping up the other areas of the store.
There is some shakeout in the titles — which is to be predicted. But almost all the titles are selling solidly at higher levels than they would have if they had been introduced one by one.
I was a doubter, actually, until I started asking my customers. Then I was a doubter they’d buy past #1’s.
There a clarity to the 52 which has made them easier to display and stock. I think it will be years, not months, before they drift down to previous levels and I hope they can find ways to keep the interest level up.
Duncan

[comicmanshipper]

for what its worth , i am still enjoying the bulk of the titles, reading a lot of the titles in 4 issues blocs
read the past weekend
1st 4 issues of Batwoman , very good++ , probably the best title being published by anyone right now

1st 4 - Deathstroke , good , picking up some, nice sub-plots

1st 4 - Grifter , good , anxious to see where this is going

1st 4 Demon Knights , vg , like this a lot , another book that is building nicely , great cliffhangers

1st 4 Frankenstein , vg , i admit the art does take getting use too , just a fun title, wild ideas , plus the War Wheel is back

1st 4 Legion Lost , vg+ , this started off as a mess with the 1st issue , but reading the 1st issue as part of the run , it now works , issues 2 , 3 , 4 have been excellent

1st 4 Green Lantern , vg+ , digging Sinestro!!

also a mention of Waid's Daredevil at Marvel , this is the best Marvel title going right now

[Quato]

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[comicmanshipper]

Each comic shop I've ever visited has a good idea what their customers will want. They know if the customer just wants the story or whether they to have a first printing. Comments like that are pretty insulting to the rest of the retailers. Some retailers may need to be insulted, but quite a few have done exactly what they've needed to do to sustain. In my evaluation, the smartest and best retailers over the past 15 years got out of the business. It was simply too much work and not enough financial reward.
Q
Hi Q, Good discussing with you again , and a Happy new Year to you and the rest of the Corral members. We obviously live in different areas of the country and i have often been told new comic book sales are much stronger in the "blue states" then the "red states" , for whatever reason.
The comic book store owners that I know locally seem to be doing pretty well , one local store owner I know confided to me that he recently reached $1 million in sales for the year , and i believe him , i've helped watch his store for him , as a favor , when he has been on vacation , and his Saturdays alone were $10k+, i really believe location , especially location in the country matters , comics are much more part of the mainstream , here north of the Mason Dixon line (and more so in the larger cities, with population areas of 500k+). The stores seem to have great locations , many in heavy traffic strip malls or enclosed malls.


I don't put much weight on articles from guys like Brian. His article promotes comics. That is what he does. Comments he made like this are marketing spin:

"What I’m saying in my long-winded way, was that stores got out of the relaunch what they put into it. Those who were positive about it and supported it saw their customer base grow. Those who did nothing, got no more than a temporary and minor boost."

Q
I've always found Brian to be a very honest guy , straight forward and he calls it as he sees it. Believe me , he has upset people both at Marvel and DC beyond belief.

TV ads are not cheap. DC was advertising on TV. I am skeptical that the increased sales counteracted their increased advertising expenses. They may have brought a few readers back into the stores out of curiosity, but that accomplishment means very little if they paid a high price and don't offer enough to keep the reader. I don't see much change in the nature of the product. It still features decompressed storytelling that help run off readers like me. The prices are not a good value for what you get and it all offers more confusion than anything else. My local retailer has confirmed that Marvel is not offering anything that is very compelling either.

Q

I actually prefer decompressed storytelling to a degree (somewhat) , sub-plots , characters relationships and personal conflicts , are the reason i come back. As for price , we could argue in this day and age , there is nothing with good value , a movie ticket here is $10-12 , IMAX $18, a new DVD $10-$20, value is all one's personal perspective. I'd rather purchase 3-4 comic books then buy a DVD or go to film , but everyones mileage may vary.

As for the advetising cost, i think we will soon know , if we see more ads this year , then obviously it worked. In a side note I was told Jon Stewart was thrilled that DC advertised on his show , he is a big comic book fan. (one if his PA's is a neighbor of mine )


Marvel has actually upgraded their line this year a little , obviously Daredevil is very good , FF , even with the hype was decent+ , Ultimate Spider-Man is a good read , obviously they are going to have to step up their game with the DC reboot success. The one minus I see with Marvel is their seemingly obsession with being #1 in market share , rather then double shipping their popular titles during a month , and flooding the market with needless spinoffs , they should concentrate on putting out a core group of titles once a month that are excellent in quality . I'd rather see 50-70 Marvel titles a month , that are all decent or better then decent, then 150 books a month with 120 or so , that are just passable or worse.





Back issue sales do help retailers order new product more aggressively by helping their cash flow problems. Unfortunately, comic shops in my area have atrocious back issue selection. The only thing collectors sell back to the shop are their excess crap.


Q I do think you are right , but back issues being part of a comic shop , seems to be a thing of the past. Most stores have none, or just blowout stuff , or the back issues are a total mess. I do think Ebay and the rest of the internet ended (that all ) comic book stores will do well with back issues. Now obviously there a few stores that still do well with back issues , but I think most of these stores , are long running stores , that have been involved in the back issue biz for the last 20-40 years.

I feel that they need to alter the value of what they offer by providing comics with more depth and action within the pages themselves.

Q I don't know , I am a long-time DC/Marvel/comic book buyer , 40+ years , of buying comic books every week, and I like the whole idea of the relaunch and the execution.
Now is it perfect , no , far from , but can i read-thru and enjoy (somewhat) nearly every title , yes.
Probably liking this relaunch as much (if not more ) the mid 80's relaunch (on the whole) . And i do think the entire line of DC comic books are better now then they probably ever were, as a long time DC fan , there were always plenty of titles that were "dogs" over the past 70 years.
YMMV though

[Evil Parsnip]

I certainly can't argue that overall DC probably got a shot in the arm from this, but some titles here are just bad, poorly written or drawn, and in some cases incomprehensible.

There are quite a few which are enjoyable and worth reading, but some, well they deserve to be in the scrap heap. Some of the good titles (Like demon knights) I suspect will end up there too due to poor sales.

But has DC captured more readers long term or is this just a short term thing? I know just as many who stopped collecting with the reboot as who went in to give the new 52 a chance.

While I'm reading, I'm not convinced I'll continue on with most of these books. I'm just not getting enough enjoyment out of some of them to bother spending the time or money on them - and I greatly dislike some of the plots, and leaping from plot to plot in a choppy fashion.

There also has developed a certain homogeneous feeling to many of DC's heroes, as in "i'm a multiple billionaire, who is also a genius, run a giant hi tech company and fight crime in my spare time" which just runs across too many titles. As well as too many robotic intelligences, internet connections, and alien guides who communicate directly to the hero. It's losing a lot of the uniqueness of the books.

It's overall quality and the feeling of sameness in the good books, and a few which just suck or haven't impressed so far (Firestorm, Captain Atom, Static Shock, Blue Beetle, LSH, and Superboy) which leave me wondering if it's worth continuing.

[comicmanshipper]

I certainly can't argue that overall DC probably got a shot in the arm from this, but some titles here are just bad, poorly written or drawn, and in some cases incomprehensible.

There are quite a few which are enjoyable and worth reading, but some, well they deserve to be in the scrap heap. Some of the good titles (Like demon knights) I suspect will end up there too due to poor sales.



I have been told Demon Knights is doing well , esp for the type of title , you are right though , it is an excellent title. I give DC credit for this though, they did not make all 52 books , straight superhero titles
With DC publishing aprx 70 titles , sure there are things that you are not going to like that i like and vice versa. I do think just about all of the titles read better in chunks , and yes some titles are incomprehensible , when reading each month and then reading 30 to 100 other titles. This is a problem almost all comic books have today , not just DC , but also Image , Marvel , nearly every Indy title. Seems to be the wave though not just in comic books , but in nearly every Fiction Novel series , TV series and film franchise. My now ex-wife would read all of these "best selling" fiction mystery/crime titles and tell me to read the book , and i would be totally lost , in the way characters and sub-plots would pop up. When i would say something to her , she would always counter with , "Oh thats right , you never read the 3rd (or 4th , etc) book which featured this plot point. Even TV is the same way anymore , even comedies , try to Watch "Curb" , "The Office" , even "Big Bang" , with missing a couple of weeks , you will be lost. Same thing with Dark Knight , some of the people we went with never saw "Begins" , man, they would not shut up during the film , with question after question.

But has DC captured more readers long term or is this just a short term thing? I know just as many who stopped collecting with the reboot as who went in to give the new 52 a chance
Short term or long term we will not know for another year or 2 at least, but i do think they have picked up more lapsed readers , more Marvel only types , and some brand new readers , then they have lost . One thing with the internet , sometimes the complainers have the loudest voices.


It's overall quality and the feeling of sameness in the good books, and a few which just suck or haven't impressed so far (Firestorm, Captain Atom, Static Shock, Blue Beetle, LSH, and Superboy) which leave me wondering if it's worth continuing.
Firestorm , i think the 2 writers was a bad idea , usually never works , hopefully with Gail leaving (and i love Gail , personally ) the book will find its way.

I like Static , and again reads better when reading a short run , but it does need to pick up the pace , this and Superboy , are titles that are too decompressed, i am all for subplots , but give me something at least in the issue. Captain Atom needs a more direct path. Blue Beetle needs to be more then a good retread of the last Blue Beetle series. LSH seems to be one of the titles that most people have a problem with , i think the large cast , is the problem , it should be streamlined a bit ( this is almost the same problem Marvel's X-books have , when i talk to people in the shops or at cons , a lot of people have no idea who 75% of these (Legion or X characters ) are.

As for continuing , i don't there is any going back , most of the line is a huge success or at least a positive , do i think that down the road we may see another "Crisis" type crossover with the pre-relaunch characters , sure , they are comic books after all . Marvel has had decent success with multi universe spins on characters , and are actually starting a new universe this year, as long as their is an audience , with a decent amount of people buying. The comic companies will keep doing stuff like that.

[comicmanshipper]

And Gail , if you are reading ( and i told her to check out the Corral at a con ) , i read Batgirl (1 to 4 today , waiting for the Hockey Game to start) , and i liked it a lot , i know it must have been tough , to come up with a decent back story explaining everything, and you were replacing a very popular take on Batgirl. So the odds were stacked against you , but you have made it work